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Comment by yawnxyz | Hacker News Reader

> Healthy older adults (n = 123, average age 72.0 years, body mass index 25.8 kg/m2) completed three 45-min supervised exercise sessions per week for 6 months. Participants were randomised to treadmill-based moderate-intensity training (n = 45), or high-intensity interval training (n = 41) or a low-intensity active control condition (n = 37), with individualised heart-rate prescription. Dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry was used to quantify body composition at baseline, and at 3 and 6 months.

ok they didn't even include light/moderate weight lifting as another control, so this is a fairly poorly executed study

basically it comapres hiit with treadmill walking in which case yes, it's slightly more useful, but hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways

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The hyper rationalist cult on HN has created a race to see who will be the first to claim "this is a fairly poorly executed study".

It really impresses the crowd here if you ignore all limitations introduced by reality, and fail to clearly even assert the requirements that would result in an "adequately executed study."

Bonus points if you finish your shallow skepticism by redirecting the conversation in the direction of your original preheld biases.

Double bonus points if you fail to link to a study that both supports that preheld bias and meets your own standards for how studies should be conducted.

"hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways"

Oh! I didn't know about this. Are there any references you could quote?

Just ask the orthopedists down the street from any CrossFit box.

Or their journal articles.

Hiit training can use any type of exercise that allows quick change of pace.

The routine in Tabata’s original HIIT work was just cycling.

Crossfit afaik is a more complex affair than just cycling.

So is the risk of injury due to specific movement or the interval quality of the movement?

I don't think this is helpful. Crossfit appears to prioritize speed and # of reps above all else, and is notorious for people doing difficult exercises with terrible form to try to hit those targets. HIIT certainly emphasises intensity of effort and prefers relatively short rest periods between sets, but not at the expense of proper form. eg when I think of cross-fit weight training or callisthenics I think of lots of snatching and jerking, with HIIT I think of moving slowly with form and trying to hold tension at the apex of the movement.

If you want to do Super Slow, great, but that is the original HIT, High Intensity (Strength) Training from Arthur Jones of Nautilus fame. I just went to YouTube and searched for HIIT. I don't see any videos of "moving slowly with form" (which is exactly what Super Slow is built around - 10 seconds concentric, 10 seconds eccentric, one set to failure).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Slow

https://youtu.be/2PdJFbjWHEU

Don't conflate hiit with crossfit. Crossfit is just one (although well known) type of hiit. There are many other type of hiit activities without the training style of crossfit.

light/moderate weight lifting is not "low-intensity active control condition" then?

> "but hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways"

Please do explain this.

Technically weight lifting (muscle hypertrophy) also causes "damage" but in a controlled an beneficial way.

I would guess they mean hiit can traumatize e.g. joints or cardiovascular system, especially for the elderly.

Most people don't understand how important, even vital, proper rest is. Injuries are almost always the result of overuse and/or insufficient rest.

HIIT itself is not dangerous, or even bad for you, if you spend the time to learn about it and how to incorporate into your life safely. If you're out of shape, and don't train regularly, go out and try HIIT you're going to have a bad time.

Could you provide some resources for learning?

yeah this is what I meant - as we get older we're supposed to move slower, and spend more time working on mobility and strength (moderate strength building, walking, and other movements like taichi and equivalent)

I really think you're being pedantic to the point of detriment. Runner's knee is a very well known condition in, wait for it, runners!

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/patellofemora...

Seems to me hiit is a way to avoid these overuse injuries.

I think runner knee was a bad example.

Sprint running is more sensitive to form in order to avoid injuries, especially in older adults.

I think you're wrong. I've been running with good form, proper nutrition, and rest, for over 40 years, averaging 20-30 miles a week, and have absolutely zero knee issues.

I think you're running a risk here of turning more people off from running, and doing more harm than good, by warning people of a risk that while possible, is unlikely to affect them.

Generally these types of degenerative conditions have other underlying conditions driving them, and are not simply the result of running. We are born to move.

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