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Comment by ggm | Hacker News Reader

Installing whatsapp was a "wtf" moment. Degoogle but leave meta in your life?

I know that it's driven in other people's communications modalities.

WhatsApp has replaced the PSTN in many countries. Without it, you cannot contact businesses; they simply do not answer normal phone calls. Also, booking accommodation over the internet may require WhatsApp in order to receive self-check-in information, and if you manage to communicate to the accommodation that you don’t have WhatsApp, it may simply cancel your reservation unilaterally.

Even where its not required, it can be a lot cheaper (e.g. for international calls) and has features (conference calls) not offered by consumer phones.

Whatsapp's success has partly been driven by telecoms companies over-charging.

Telecoms financed and built the communication infrastructure which made the internet (and thus, WhatsApp) possible. WhatsApp is also further subsidised because you also pay for the internet to use it.

I pay for an internet connection anyway. Even if I use a pay as you go mobile connection (on which the telco makes a profit) its still a lot cheaper to use Whatsapp than either SMS or voice calls.

There is no subsidy, its telecoms companies making a ridiculously high margin (aimed by regulators in some countries) on some services.

Telecoms received excessive returns on their investment. Effectively acting as rentiers for long distance calls.

Ok. And do you think Meta / WhatsApp is any different from any of those Telecoms? Just because WhatsApp is "free" doesn't mean it's a non-profit service from Meta!

This might be true in your country but it's absolutely incorrect in mine. Most of the telecoms here started as crown corporations, making them an arm of the government. Some of them have been privatized since then but they all received billions in subsidies to build out the networks to cover everyone and not just the most populated areas. An awful lot of Canadian taxpayer dollars have gone to build the internet in this country and we still get gouged like crazy.

The point still stands - Telecoms have been subsidised by public money. And we further subsidise WhatsApp by paying for an internet connection to use it.

There are thousands, maybe millions, of alternatives to Whatsapp for that purpose.

It's way too late for alternatives now, unless regulation is created to break the monopoly.

How many of those can my elderly mother use to talk to her sisters? By my estimation the answer is, "zero," and the alternatives will get even scarcer thanks to Bill C-22.

Signal is almost a 1:1 UI clone. If they can manage whatsapp they can manage signal...

Except my aunts are already on WhatsApp and I would have to get all of them on Signal. And then they would still need WhatsApp because of everyone else they talk to who isn't on Signal. The network effect is very real. On top of that we still don't know if Bill C-22 is going to require Signal to pull out of Canada entirely because of the metadata retention requirements. They don't keep metadata and that's something Canadian law enforcement has been pushing for for a long time.

>And then they would still need WhatsApp because of everyone else they talk to who isn't on Signal.

I don't see the issue. I do the exact same. Want to talk to me? Use this app or we can't. There never can be any network effect if nobody start doing this.

I recently made a phone call from the US to UK. I was horrified to find that my unlimited calling didn't apply to that international route. Really?!? Countries should be fighting to remove those fees. I can call Mexico or Canada without any additional cost, so it can be done. I'd originally proposed starting a business with the UK gentleman, but this is likely the first of many regulations which will tax me.

This is a case of inaction by regulators, rather than action.

They do it because they can and its not important to most people.

I resisted WhatsApp until we started cruising with our sailboat. So many processes require WhatsApp. In many places you can't do customs and immigration without it.

Well, maybe not 100% true. There might still be the remnant of an old paper-based process around, but since nobody uses it, it would be a recipe for spending days queuing in random offices.

Once we're back in Europe, it will be a happy moment when I can finally uninstall the app.

I feel like going with LineageOS rather than GrapheneOS for WhatsApp would be a mistake since GrapheneOS has much stronger sandboxing.

Honestly I understand OP, I also run GrapheneOS but most of my social life happens on whatsapp and I know it's stupid but I can't change dozens of people's choice to install Signal, even though most of them know the issues with Meta.

My hope is that one day or another whatsapp will enshittify so bad that people will be more prone to move to Signal in the same way that recently Windows got so bad that many users moved to Linux.

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