You would think that the AI would point out that calcium is best demonstrated on Radiographs/CT imaging vs Ultrasound or something to that effect.
Between the toes and the below the knee amputation, there were no less than 15 different doctors and PAs / related personnel who COULD NOT COME TO A CONSENSUS. They would just tell my mother and I (PoA) the details; they refused to come up with a singular plan of action moving forward, leaving it up to us to make 'an informed decision,' something that's IMPOSSIBLE when you have to take up to 15 different opinions into consideration.
What exactly are we supposed to do as patients/family members when medical personnel cannot give reasonable paths forward and instead just throw a bunch of shit over the fence at you and tell you, "you decide what to do from here," regardless of how many VERY DIRECT conversations I had w/the 'care team' on doing better to provide a limited array of options and reasons/likelihood of 'positive outcomes'.
I'm used to dealing with a wide variety of stakeholders/SMEs in decision-making; it's my job to apply my extensive industry experience to present our clients with their options, ranked and reasoned. Doctors, in my experience and most recently with my father, clearly do NOT do that (I assume due to liability; but, no real idea, honestly). So; when dealing with LIFE CHANGING circumstances, what are we supposed to do except rely on what might be able to offer more analysis and option narrowing w/AI?
I certainly don't want to make the job of medical staff more difficult by putting out crazy theories I found on the interwebbernets through my own research, etc; but, when we're having to deal with uncertainty and insanity, what else can we do?
All of the above was intertwined with brief stints with doctors that would just berate her for being a painkiller junkie, even though she hated the stuff and just wanted to find/fix the problem.
Kind of a rant, really. I'm not sure how to tie it back into AI. I do wish we had AI at the time so that we could at least cross-check, but I also understand that doctors are already sick of patients self-diagnosing on the web and that AI probably just makes that worse. At the same time, if our medical system could catch up a bit (more doctors? less corruption/paperwork? not sure what it needs) then maybe people would be less inclined to take matters into their own hands.
AI is absolutely a god send for patients navigating the medical system.
I know the US system is horrible and I sympathize with doctors doing their best within it. But we must admit, they are also responsible for the countless stories just like yours, and have contributed to the public's deteriorating trust of medical institutions. It's not just the insurance companies and conglomerate CEOs.
P. S. Opiates work, very well. If you tale one and it doesn't work, you might also be allergic. Hydro didnt really work, then itching and puking started after 2 days of untouched pain(essentially, a reduction of 2 points). Codeine nausea.
I wasn't aware of the possibility.
I empathize with you as my grandmother is also being what feels like gaslit by several doctors being told her symptoms are dementia and not from the chronic UTI’s she suffers from, but when the UTI’s clear all of a sudden no symptoms. Our medical system is very frustrating, between doctors who don’t have the time needed for complicated cases, or the threat of every patient suing them causing them to be overly cautious.
I think as long as you’re aware of the pitfalls of AI, as you seem to be, it’s a solid tool for helping to understand medical situations with the right amount of double checking.
I don’t think our system will improve until 1) We increase the amount of doctors in our country and tell Congress to quit limiting the amount we can train yearly, and 2) the system of liability for doctors is changed to be more like New Zealand’s where their liability insurance is nationalized and they’re not at constant threat of losing everything to a lawsuit over a patient who wouldn’t take their meds and got worse (the cases are generally much more complex than that, but the idea is it’s not always the doctors fault as media would have us believe).
If we would allow AIs to be trained on the petabytes of medical data hidden in hospital systems, they would most likely be much better at diagnosing illnesses and conditions than the average doctor.
(Justifiable) Privacy around medical records so far prevents this.
You think you're cheering for humans, but in fact you are gatekeeping healthcare.
It would be like the sum of all medical professors in existence.
The problem is these are just statistical models at the end of the day, so you need to know something to be able to identify the errors. You can’t let them really be autonomous and you also can’t really have people turn into glorified approvers. If the machine is correct 89% of the time, you cannot make people responsible for that 11%. It’ll just cause automation fatigue.
tl;dr: the actual use cases of these LLM (or generative AI in general) is rather limited, so it is offensive how much hay has been given to them eating the entire capitalist system. They are not fit for purpose.
The human experts are literally just a trained biological neural network. In this domain they are not capable of anything a computer can't already do.
Humans can identify. A computer vision model can return a statistical value. Both can make errors, but these errors are orthogonal to how we work and what is being asked of them. I think a CV model can absolutely provide value as augmentation. Identifying possible misses or a different diagnosis worth considering, but that is not what is being asked of them here. The pitch by Altman and Amodei is not to say, “This tool that might cost $1,000/month can help increase the accuracy of your diagnoses by 10%,” instead it’s, “This tool can allow you to keep 10% of your workers to monitor it and you can fire the rest. Also, the workers carry all the liability.”
> The human experts are literally just a trained biological neural network. In this domain they are not capable of anything a computer can't already do.
People need to stop making this baseless claim. Human beings are not stochastic computing devices, we are not neural networks. We don’t fully understand human cognition and intelligence. I have the highest confidence we will figure it out one day, though.
Yes, neural networks were based on a superficial view of the human brain, that’s it. For instance, it is biological impossible for the human brain to do backpropagation, which is kind of important for a modern neural net.
This really rubs me the wrong way because it's objectively false, but people keep bring it up because I think people want it to be true rather than accepting generative AI for what it is: a tool with a bunch of caveats.
Also disagreement among human radiologists has been documented for decades, so the clean expert baseline you're defending doesn't actually exist outside this argument.
When the identifiers pass human-detection-rate percentages, it will most likely be cheaper to hire a fall-guy for the liability with a much smaller salary, I think this will be a big market in fact.
I also didn't say anything about whatever Altman or any specific company is doing.
The simple fact is that we send humans to school for years to learn to read and classify these things. It's something computers will be able to do strictly better.
I don’t think there’s any evidence that’s true.
The premise seems to be proven, just not extended to the medical domain yet.
Satellite image processing can certainly detect a hotspot then interpret it as either a small brushfire or a missile launch. Facial recognition detects my features then interprets who I am. It's all pattern matching just at different scales in different parameter spaces.