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Comment by CamouflagedKiwi | Hacker News Reader

In the original thread Carmack was replying to, Sandy Petersen said Q3 was the only other great game they produced after that: https://xcancel.com/SandyofCthulhu/status/206959226489744192...

Honestly I think Doom is where it came together the best, Quake was technically better (of course) but it was not a better game.

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The true successor of ID software is Half-life 1 with its goldsrc engine... but that simply was made by another studio.

HL1 took both the engine and the genre further + continued the modding culture that brough Counter strike and other mods

(Note I know very well that Half life is not an ID software game, it only took the engine that was auper heavily modified / updated- but it my opinion this is the successor)

goldsrc is based off the q1 engine.

It was based off the q1 engine but heavily modified and took stuff from q2 as well, notably coloured lighting and radiosity lightmaps.

Don't forget that the entire Call of Duty series also sits on Quake's shoulders.

Maybe they're related by blood, but the apple fell very far from the tree. the ID guys were quite vocal in their dislike of the slow pace & puzzle solving. This was when ID was all about technical advancements and repeatedly making the same game, faster & shinier. They also focused on multiplayer with Quake III arena and Unreal Tournament dictating where the market moved.

I always felt Serious Sam was the real spiritual successor of the original Doom lineage.

I agree. I loved DOOM: it was so over the top. Tons of monsters to kill, loads of great weapons, enough ammo around that you didn’t have to worry about it too much, and it was all so colourful and gore.

Quake felt much more subdued to me. Not enough to shoot, the weapons weren’t as fun, ammo was tighter, and although in many ways it was incredibly atmospheric it was also just so brown and grey.

To me Quake always lacked the OTT fun factor of DOOM. Technically, it’s vastly superior - and an incredible achievement - but just not as good a game.

I think it’s telling that I’ll still play DOOM every so often, but I haven’t touched Quake since the 1990s.

Yeah, they could do a lot more in it with true 3D maps, but the design was all brown. The bosses were boring - the first one is kinda cool, the others not (IIRC episodes 2 and 3 were just kind of standard enemies); all three of Doom's were scary, especially the Cyberdemon when you can hear it roaring and the noise of it walking around.

The Lovecraftian vibe could have been cool but it doesn't really come through in the game in the way the satanic / hell thing did in Doom.

> I think it’s telling that I’ll still play DOOM every so often, but I haven’t touched Quake since the 1990s.

That is just your preference. For me it's the opposite, I have never finished DOOM, but Quake is one of my favourite games ever and I have replayed it countless times.

Not to mention that Quake has a fantastic community that keeps pumping out dozens of incredible maps every year, it would not be like that if people didn't love it.

> That is just your preference.

Did you think I hadn’t realised?

I think it's about the first thing that got you hooked. My Macintosh LC II with a 486sx daughtercard couldn't play Doom well. By the time I sorted my PC situation out, there was Quake.

For me the thing about Quake was the clans, CTF, LAN parties, QuakeC mods, Quake World. It was the first of its kind, perhaps not technically, but in capturing that zeitgeist. Yeah, there were DukeNukem, Heretic, Raven, UT, but we built our camaraderies around Quake, getting all tacticool with "10-4, RTB, RGR" and hanging out on the clan's IRC :)

Yup. I was disappointed that Quake was a graphics downgrade from Doom and went back to playing Doom wads.

Quake was better for multiplayer though. Personally I enjoyed Quake 2 the most. Quake arena was designed for multiplayer but you had to practice with the cheating bots so it was kinda boring.

Quake 2 multiplayer is such a blast. The cat-and-mouse chase fights in that game is what defines the genre of "arena shooter" for me, there's still nothing else really like it.

The campaign has a place in my heart too, even if it's not perfect. A lot of DOOM's level design was predicated on claustrophobic interiors, and when you go "outside" in many levels it feels like a glorified courtyard. From the very first level, Quake 2 pushes hard to create an illusion of environmental complexity that plays very distinct from Quake 1 or DOOM.

Personally I think Unreal Tournament perfected the genre when it comes to multiplayer. Q1 was a lot of spamming of grenades and so on. Q2 was better. Still a lot of chaos. UT99 was also chaos but you could combine it with perfect moves and high precision shots. Great games all of them. I used to be an elite UT99 player but as the pace kept increasing along with my age my reaction time was simple not good enough anymore. Even if tactics compensated a lot those games are not like sneaking around in CS. I mostly played CTF. Good old times.

Quake III art style and level design is disgusting, depressing and boring. But it is the better game.

Go here right now and play a few games against bots and people of Quake III and UT99: https://dos.zone/mp/?lobby=*

There is no denying that movement and gameplay is much more enjoyable in Quake compared to UT. Even with the lack in variety on all fronts.

Idk, I think UT has some really neat design elements, like the shock rifle that are really unique. It rewards predicting the enemy a lot and a lot of mechanical skill etc. Plus there's the cool factor of guns like the Redeemer :D

QIII while solid feels missing lots of flair, it feels more generic shooter. Good, solid, but a little generic.

I think what makes Q3A seem generic nowadays is that it set the standard.

Q2 was always my favourite, that's where I started my multi-player journey. I only played against bots in the first Quake, and only played against my cousins at their place in Doom (they had multiple computers linked up back in the day).

IIRC, my problem with Quake multiplayer was that one node acted as the server, so when I connected to a friend’s computer via modem, my lag was a serious disadvantage (neither my friend nor I ever won as clients). Doom, on the other hand, simply froze both computers whenever there was a communication issue.

Although, to be fair, we played Doom over an RS-232 cable - hauling a PC across the city every weekend was a testament to our love for the game :)

Rocket. Jump.

The original Team Fortress on quake.net is where I grew to appreciate the beauty.

Same here. I enjoyed Q3A, but I spent so many hours playing TF/MegaTF.

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