I think this is a false dichotomy. Consumer return policies, customer service, etc. tend to be much better in the US than in the EU.
I would characterize it rather that the US is pro-business and pro-consumer, but somewhat anti-average worker.
I would characterize it rather that the US is pro-business and pro-consumer, but somewhat anti-average worker.
I was briefly subscribed to the NYT from Germany. To my surprise, I couldn't cancel online, but had to call. (The EU has a law which requires that if you can subscribe online, you must be able to cancel online.)
They have national numbers for many countries, but they're just forwarders to the same call center, with notably mangled audio quality presumably due to multiple lossy compression algorithms applied at each hop of the call.
Additionally, there was lots of background noise when I got connected to a rep. Over this barely usable line, I was now asked to spell out my email address, which naturally took multiple attempts of painfully slow spelling before the rep was able to locate my account. (My very limited knowledge of the NATO alphabet didn't help.)
Of course, I then had to go through the spiel of declining alternative offers and providing a reason for my cancellation (all of which I never had to do in Germany before) before they finally confirmed it. Yeah, I'm glad about consumer protection law in the EU.
It's not word choice, you are just making the wrong argument.
Perhaps because you don't want all retail to be Amazon?
> laws are not free, somebody has to pay
Isn't that a bit hyperbole? That law is written once, and delivers its effects afterwards. In contrast, millions of buyers have to investigate return policies every day without such a law. Is that really a better use of time?
And you don't have to buy on Amazon, most companies in the US accept returns in this way or another. Some ask you to pay a small premium for returns, it's up to you to pay it or not. Those who don't accept back damaged goods (no matter what policy is) usually got chargebacks which are commonly approved by the banks, and it's pretty expensive for sellers. So there are many ways to regulate returns, law is not the only one.
There's a lot of overlap between protecting consumers and enabling scammers.
The customer almost always wins those. And the merchant always has to pay a fee for the chargeback, even when they win, so they're incentivized to avoid them.
The merchant agreement isn't as effective as a well enforced law, but it's pretty close.
The type of thing that might go from side gig to actual long running business that could end up employing a bunch of people.
I would be fine with waiving my right to returns but this is not possible on purpose, so my only options are to shop somewhere else (often not possible) or found a company (not possible because it would be Liebhaberei - "Running a company without intent to make profits").
Apple is another good example. Their base warranty is two years in the EU versus one year in the US, and there’s additional protection on top in many EU countries that extends it to the expected life of the product, in some cases as long as 5-6 years.
And again, all of these are backed up by the law, not just a policy that the company can revoke or decide not to enforce.
In general though, culturally, the US is much more "the customer is always right", whereas in the EU, it's considered a hassle to cater to customers that much. This mentality translates across the economy as a whole.
At least that's in my experience of being American and living in the EU for the last 10 years.
We can argue about the consumer friendliness of the regulations in the EU but they also add demonstrably to the cost of tech products (and likely other categories).
Nope, they don't. You'd have to compare with some countries that are 1. Not the US 2. Have less consumer protections than the EU. And guess what? Apple products are also significantly more expensive than the US there. But hey, half your comments on here are this kind of EU bashing based on grade school reasoning.
It's surprising to see on HN of all places people unaware that Apple products (and almost all other tech products) have been a lot cheaper in the US than elsewhere for decades.
So much FUD here, same for the Bunny thread. It doesn't feel organic anymore.
So if you bother comparing apples to apples that MacBook starts at around $1,145 in Germany… if you actually want that 1 extra year of warranty and get Apple Care in the US it actually becomes cheaper in Europe
Maybe the ones voluntarily offered by companies, but not the legal ones.
The better policies given by US companies is also likely driven by competition, so by definition they wouldn't be something that a government regulation could accomplish (other than to incentivize more competition.)
Although, this is rapidly changing. Places like California are putting in similar regulatory barriers and excessive minimum taxation.