Hacker News Reader

Comment by rjsw | Hacker News Reader

That range is typical for European mass-market EV cars.

That's cool. This is a US market vehicle. The geography of the US is very, very different from Europe, so I don't think expectations for the European market are terribly useful for a US market vehicle. Have a play around with https://thetruesize.com and https://luminocity3d.org/WorldPopDen .

200mi is definitely acceptable in the US, but it's on the low end of the acceptable spectrum.

Yeah all of us Americans drive 200mi+ each way nine days a week 'cause the average house is on a 2,000 acre ranch.

People often really overestimate their driving habits.

Some Americans would absolutely be heavily impacted by a vehicle with a vehicle with 200mi range on a good day. A ton of Americans would never really be affected.

Americans specifically overestimate driving habits. There is the odd occasion that a requires a very long drive but that drive once or twice a year shouldn't weigh as heavily as it does for most people.

> Yeah all of us Americans drive 200mi+ each way nine days a week 'cause the average house is on a 2,000 acre ranch.

I never claimed that.

> People often really overestimate their driving habits.

I agree, and like I said I think 200mi is acceptable. But people do like driving in the US. I used to go up to Brainerd from the Twin Cities regularly; that's 135 miles each way. This is not uncommon, lots of people here like to do short road trips up north on holiday weekends. Sometimes I even did both directions in a single day. My 300mi Ioniq 5 could probably do that whole trip on a single charge, maybe with a short stop to bump it up, which will be fast thanks to the 800V architecture. But the 200mi range would take at least one full charging stop, possibly two, which will also be slower thanks to the slower architecture.

Like I keep saying, I don't think 200mi is a deal killer, but it's also definitely a con for the US market. But it keeps the price low, which is definitely the focus here and means it slots nicely into the 2nd family car budget. Nothing's perfect; I still think it's a cool product and will be keeping my eye on it.

> I used to go up to Brainerd from the Twin Cities regularly;

But you're going to stop somewhere along that path already, right? You're not driving straight there and immediately turning around and leaving right?

I've done several road trips between DFW, Houston, and Austin in an EV with ~200mi of range and a 400V pack. The DFW<->Houston trip is nearly 300mi. Compared to my average trip time in my gas cars, its about an extra 15-20 minutes on a four and a half hour drive. I was going to stop for lunch on that four and a half hour drive anyways.

Oh no such a massive impact on my life, spending an extra 20 minutes a few times a year.

Meanwhile I spend hours a year going to gas stations and pumping gas for my gas cars that get fewer miles.

> But you're going to stop somewhere along that path already, right?

Honestly, no, I didn't. It's only 2 hours. Having to stop for a 30+ minute charge in each direction would add a significant amount of time to the trip.

I don't really understand why you're being so aggressive about this. We are almost entirely agreeing. 300mi is a selling point for buyers because it means an easier time doing 100+ mile road trips, which are not uncommon in the US. More range is a tick in the "pro" column when comparison shopping, and it could convince someone to buy a car other than this one. That's all I'm saying.

> Having to stop for a 30+ minute charge in each direction would add a significant amount of time to the trip.

Sure it would, but why would you? It would be more like one 20 minute charge in Brainerd. Maybe a half hour if you want some extra buffer. And that's assuming you're unable to charge wherever you're staying.

Well I mean yeah. That's exactly my point, you don't have to do that with the 300mi range. I think 300mi is the "sweet spot" where you're probably going to stop anyway to take a break or whatever, or your trip will be done already, so charging isn't really an issue. 200mi feels on the short side to me, and I think my Brainerd trips are a good example of the difference that 100mi difference makes.

And my point is people will often overestimate their needs, like suggesting for that few times a year road trip they'll need to stop twice for probably an hour or more on their trip when in reality it'd be more like one twenty minute stop.

All this guy has done for 2 days is make bad arguments in car posts. I don't think he is a very happy person.

Lots of places in the USA outside of major metros don't have much in the way of fast-charging infrastructure yet. I'd have to drive nearly 30 minutes outside my "everyday" travel area to get to the closest one. I don't know about Twin Cities - Brainerd but it sounds like a lot of drives in the USA: 100 miles of corn fields between two somewhat interesting end points.

What percentage of US cars will find themselves on those roads?

No one buys for their average daily commute. They buy for the longest drive they'll do in a day, which is typically wherever they go for their summer vacation and/or hobbies on the weekend.

I've gone on lots of 1,000mi+ road trips. I guess I need to focus on buying cars with 1,000+mi range.

And I'm guessing you bought a vehicle with enough space for all the things you'll take on that road trip right? Odds are you didn't buy a Prius and rent an SUV for your road trip...

Range doesn't matter for ICE vehicles because of the speed of refueling and ubiquity of gas stations. And you know this.

I've never owned a Prius, but I've known several Prius owners. Several of them have gone on some quite long road trips, several >1,000mi. I don't get why an SUV is required to go on a road trip for a couple of adults. People often fly for travel, do you really take significantly more stuff in the car than you do when you fly? Do you normally need a thousand pounds of clothes to go away for a week or two?

I've gone on several 1,200mi each way road trips in cars like a Honda Accord and a Ford Focus hatch. A couple of those in that Focus hatch even carried four adults in the car. I just put a little luggage rack on the back.

It's not like you need a giant SUV to drive a few hundred miles. I can assure you smaller cars can make that drive as well!

Range doesn't really matter past a certain point for a ton of people. Few vehicles even go on massive road trips these days. Traveling with my little kids these days, we end up stopping just about as much in our ICE as we do on in our EV on road trips.

As I've mentioned here many times, the amount of time I spend "charging" my ICE dwarfs the amount of time I spend charging my EV, and my EV gets significantly more miles. Even with road trips factored in.

More proof people massively overestimate their vehicle needs. Thinking you need an SUV to go on a road trip, that a Prius just can't possibly be enough.

I've done 2000 mile road trips in an EV. It added 15 minutes to the 3 day trip. Charge overnight or while you're eating or bathrooming. Only once did I actually have to wait for the charger.

Was it an EV with only 200 mile range?

That is 200 miles in perfect conditions. Last winter I tried to make a 120 mile trip in my EV and I didn't make it despite having a claimed 220 miles of range when I left. I realized in time to make it to a charger (this was in a very rural area there were few gas stations), but it was a slow level 2 - an hour having lunch someplace other than where I would have chosen and I was able to get home but the car switched to power saving mode for the last mile.

200 miles in perfect conditions is the minimum anyone should accept. Just like in winter I never let my gas tank go below 1/4 tank - in case I get stuck and need to run the engine for heat while waiting for help. You should plan to only run between 20% and 80% battery, which means your 200 mile range is already 120 miles of useful range in perfect conditions.

I agree with your take, hence my "on a good day" part of the comment. For a lot of people, 200mi of on a good day range on an EV probably isn't enough. In fact, for a number of people who drive a good bit in very cold climates, I don't think an EV will make sense for them without some pretty radical changes in battery energy density. The fact an ICE throws off so much waste heat is such a feature and not a negative in some climates.

Not everyone lives in the rural parts of the North though. In fact, most of the country doesn't.

The Slate got swapped to LFP so you can take it down to 10% without care.

I take my E-Transit down to single digits because I gotta make this 130 miles of range work for me. I max out around 80 miles between stops during winter road tripping.

The EV life is just getting used to planning ahead of time like the old days again. I always pull up the route on ABRP app, and check its suggestions on plugshare for recent issues if I'm driving somewhere I haven't before.

I drive about 300 miles a week, have a convenient already-wired in 240v socket in my garage, and 200 miles with a 30 minute boost charge should cover 99% of my driving.

I have a pickup and a car, I'll be trading both of them in to help cut the cost of this down, and if I'm going on a road trip I'll just rent a car. It's no big deal.

The US is bigger.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com