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Comment by invalidusernam3 | Hacker News Reader

Why has this become a meme? Sure aircon is nice but there are also reasons why it's not common in some parts of Europe. Here in central Prague a lot of the buildings are historic and protected, so you can't just gouge out a section of the building to install an aircon. Also it's generally only hot enough for aircon maybe 2-4 weeks a year. I'm seeing more and more American's yapping about not having aircon in Europe. I assume they're mostly the kind that has never been to Europe

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Canadian here. My exposure to this topic is mostly:

- News coverage about how extremely hot it has become in north/central Europe - News coverage/comments about heat-related deaths in Europe - People suddenly discovering wet bulb temperatures - "Extreme Heat" warnings, and events getting cancelled

What I see is people complaining about something when I can walk into my local Walmart, Canadian Tire, or hardware store and buy a $150-250CAD air conditioner which will cool a bedroom to 20C.

Is $200CAD ($150 Euro?) worth sleeping well for 2-8 weeks a year (counting warm-but-not-extreme weeks)?

Window designs in Europe may be different, but we have also invented... sheets of plywood and saws to cut baffles. It may not be pretty, but a vast number of low-income apartments in Toronto have plywood baffles + aircon in their bedroom windows.

The complaining, outrage and sudden realizations that it's hot outside are what annoy me. Some years it is >30C for 4 weeks and >25C for 8-12 weeks. Well worth $150 for a cheap aircon unit.

Meanwhile ~40 (mostly young) people drowned in France recently trying to cool off as temperatures exceeded 100F around Paris.

It's true that historically Europe is cooler than similar latitudes in North America. But there's also an anti-AC movement in Europe based partly on environmentalism, partly on reflexive anti-Americanism, and partly due to a general preference for "naturalness"/suspicion of anything new.

> It's true that historically Europe is cooler than similar latitudes in North America. But there's also an anti-AC movement in Europe based partly on environmentalism, partly on reflexive anti-Americanism, and partly due to a general preference for "naturalness"/suspicion of anything new.

This is complete speculation from your part.

That part might be speculation, okay, so then let's add the number of people, European citizens, dying of overheating every year (lately at least). The history is history, while the current world is so much hotter. It doesn't matter whether you deny climate change models, reality is that France just had their hottest day ever recorded, and such records get broken year after year. I've seen yesterday a picture of a Madrid bus station showing +51°C. So, if there's a better solution than AC for the affected persons I'd be very happy to hear it.

Why did you stop just short of proving that Europeans reject ACs because of "reflexive anti-Americanism"? Because that's the only thing GP objected to.

Because climate is more important to me than pettiness.

You're being too generous. It's not "speculation", it complete bullshit.

It's very Americentrist to assume anyone ever thinks of "Americans" when deciding their home improvements and expenses.

Most of Europe only sees occasional heatwaves (for now) so it's a compromise to suffer some heat briefly but save money and effort on the AC installation. Those who can, time their vacation to overlap with much of the peak heat.

I think this slowly changes but it's driven by need (longer and hotter heatwaves), affordability, local regulation, not by thinking of "Americans". Not even US Americans.

I don't assume it; it's simply true. Educated/elite Europeans tend to define themselves in opposition to Americans. It's pretty hard to interact with those Europeans (including on this site) and not pick up on that.

There are plenty of Americans who side with the Europeans and also define themselves in opposition to "the kind of American" who has AC/eats fast food/is obese/has no culture. I'm from New England and maybe even a majority of people have that perspective.

> But there's also an anti-AC movement in Europe based partly on environmentalism, partly on reflexive anti-Americanism, and partly due to a general preference for "naturalness"/suspicion of anything new.

It's so amusing to see what people really think about us Europeans, so suspicious of anything new and those Americans, I guess we still burn witches too!

I for one love my AirConditioning unit, but it gets use maybe 1 month of the year ? I can completely understand why people don't see the need when awnings are still a thing. There are just already ways to keep the house cool during the day.

Correction: Europe is much warmer than similar latitudes in North America. Madrid is north of Denver. Istanbul is north of New York. London is north of Calgary.[1]

1: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/3sac4u/interactive...

Meanwhile the US has a 1.31 drownings per 100 000 inhabitants and France 0.81 per 100 000 inhabitants. 60% less than the US.

But just like crime you can break those down by race and find huge correlations but it makes the people very uncomfortable.

Those people are uncomfortable because you confuse ecomonic/ wealth divide with racial divide

Trying to cool off going swimming because its warm outside like we do every summer?

> I assume they're mostly the kind that has never been to Europe

The big disconnect comes from the fact that places like Miami and Houston don't really have analogous European peers in terms of climate. There are places that come close but it's not the same.

It's one thing for it to be unbearably hot at 2-6pm. Its a different thing altogether for it to still be 80F+ at 3am every single night for months on end. You cannot escape the heat in Houston without phase change cooling technology. Latent heat removal is what most of us are paying for around here (water out of the air). Not sensible heat removal.

I can walk down my street and find 2-3k sqft sqft homes that have 5+ tons of HVAC capacity. There is a home with three condensing units and it's not much bigger than mine (I only have a single 3 ton system). I've been thinking about getting a multizone ductless installed on top of my central unit to deal with July and August.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/weather-news/articles/worst-ive-e...

I just had to replace an AC in my condo in Miami. The replacement parts' cost for the old unit didn't make sense. Got a 3 ton Bosch unit, parts and installation was $6K. 3 tons is just enough for 1600 square feet and old single pane windows.

You cannot survive without an AC in Florida. Nor in Las Vegas, Dallas, NYC and the boroughs, the list goes on. Doable in Santa Monica or in the Bay perhaps.

Humidity is a larger burden on me than temperature. I can do dry Las Vegas at 100F, but can't stand Miami at 80F and 70% humidity.

You can add AC systems in the attics and then run the piping inside the building. You keep the facade as it is.

I guess it depends on the country, customs and other things. In my part of Europe, older people are convinced the AC will kill them if they use it. So YMMV.

You can indeed. But then you lose significant space internally and not to mention the noise. Of course, better than having nothing. However, space in these houses comes at a premium as well.

You don't need a lot of space for effective AC.

that's not very efficient since attic will be then hot

balcony is more practical place where to hide it if it's historical building, worth that <0.5m2 if you don't hang it on wall and must hide it from neighbors/bureaucrats

The climate situation will only get worse. That “2-4 weeks” number will continue to grow. At some point you will need AC to survive but if that transition doesn’t start happening now the electrical system won’t be able to tolerate the load.

I live in Prague and seeing the temperatures expected during weekend, I bought at least the portable AC. I'd say 2-4 weeks is quite a long period to justify this purchase.

Yes, historically, the AC didn't make sense in Prague, but there's no going back, the world is just going to get hotter.

portable AC is extremely inefficient and noisy + you need hole in the window, otherwise you will be letting tons of heat back through the gap if you keep window ajar even with insulation

I lived 25 years in Rome, now I live in Vancouver.

Went back to Rome in the summer this year (haven't been there in summer in about 8 years)...

And holy moly it's so hot. Unbearably hot and humid. You don't want to step out, it's outright unpleasant.

But Rome has more AC than vancouver

Not really? There are so many places with no ac (still) and there are so many places with ac kept too low.

Vancouver is a mess with ac too, but Vancouver is also way cooler

About 50-55% of homes have AC in Rome compared to 25% in vancouver, I'm sure it'll get to 70-80% soon enough.

Right now it's unbearable but even 10 years ago you had a fraction of the nights with these temperatures (over 23degrees). People are just slow with change and some older Italians are superstitious about the cold air. With costs being difficult for some on top.

There is also something that doesn't show up in statistics, where in Italy the AC is kept at higher temperatures in public buildings. I am not sure why, I guess the whole "too much temperature difference", yet I have been to 3 gyms this summer and I found the AC grossly insufficient for the heat generated in the gym

Air-conditioners are heat pumps and everyone should be using heat pumps

Good luck convincing old building protection pressure groups about it (yes, around here these people are real and have power). Not to mention the bureau actually in charge of landmark protection (in some areas everything is a landmark).

Portable AC units are pretty universally allowed where I live in Austria. The mini split units are also allowed, but I've seen some folks get letters about these specifically.

Unless you have split mobile AC portable units are very inefficient.

Tbh even in old buildings it might be possible to reabilitate old chimneys for AC (or rather heat pumps).

Make Past Great Again.

I've lived in Prague for 5 years. Top apartments in buildings (most have 5-6 storeys in the center) are hardly livable during summer (not even during proper heat waves) without AC, reconstructed or not. I've been to few, folks slept on balconies if AC was not present. Woken up by 5am traffic of course. The whole city center is a mess of stone and concrete/tarmac, it heats up and stays too warm deep into each night.

I don't get this extremism, neither no AC or AC full blast freezing the room. We have ours set to mild spin aiming for 20C, it drops temperature in the room cca 4-5 degrees down compared to no AC. Still 25, very pleasant while outside 35 in shade, especially for small kids.

Never cross a river 4-feet deep on average. A heatstroke may not let you see how cooler the rest of the year may be.

If you count that one weird day in March, there have been 9 days so far this year where the temperature has been above 28C I live in central Europe as well. It's only June... You'll have 39C on Sunday.

Using 28C as a threshold since temperatures at or above start to affect sleep.

many of those old buildings have balconies where you can hide AC nobody from street can see, personally I have my multisplit unit on the roof (I'm on top/5th floor), same with neighbor floor below just with longer pipes

it certainly more than 4 weeks hot enough between June-September to justify AC, even one month per year is comfy + it helps also during heating season if they start too late or end too early, you can use AC for heating as well

This might be the coldest summer for the rest of your life. European summers are only going to get hotter, and more humid. Meanwhile, we have a pressing need to decarbonize our home heating solutions both for energy sovreignty and climate reasons.

Modern air-to-air heat pumps (i.e. aircon) are a pretty good solution for that. I think we're just going to have to work our way around this as a society. While many Europeans live in historic buildings that will require a lot more care, most do not, and installing aircon at least for homes with elederly people and young children provably will reduce unnecessary deaths during our now yearly heatwaves.

But what about the coldest springs? It's wild, I was in Paris just this mid May and it was raining and hailing, berry sized icy projectiles from the sky. I had to pop into a Decathlon and get a waterproof jacket.

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