Who cares about motor efficiency when you can only take 10% as much fuel. At the end of the day, cost is the only metric that matters.
If you charge at home it gets less. If you have solar at home it approaches zero.
Yes, the cost of the car itself is a factor, but even there prices are dropping all the time.
>> when you can only take 10% as much fuel
effeciency makes all the difference when we discuss % of fuel. 90% of 100 mj is the same as 30% of 300 mj. So already the "fuel" can be 66% less. Generally though the raw amount of mj isn't a very important number. A better measure (which takes effeciency, and tank size into account) is "range". But even that is somewhat meaningless. At some point range is "enough". For daily commutes that may be 50 miles. For long-distance it might be 500 miles.
In only a very few cases would a pickup with 2000 mile range be more useful than one with 1000 mile range.
Plus you can also factor in maintenance costs. The cost of ownership of an ev, from a service and maintenance point of view is a lot lower.
[1] ymmv somewhat. Although electricity prices vary a lot, so do gas prices. The 50% saving (at worst) is a pretty good rule of thumb though.
The bio-fuel people at least make some kind of sense compared to fossil fuel "survivalists" - but again they're portrayed as just tree huggers!
If there is such a marketing, then people relate to it because EVs are not suited for handling unpredictable situation. You got stuck in a ditch in the middle of nowhere at night, you loss all of your battery getting out of it, and now you are stuck. So you can't take it to unforgiving places.
EVs are great for boring commute that is it. I don't see it changing any time soon.
It won't be efficient but neither is driving a few liters of fuel to someone from a gas station.
https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/call-breakdown-provider-ev-ru...
I find it interesting how you’re presenting that incredibly unlikely scenario as a serious objection to an EV when simply going off the road is a once in a lifetime or less situation for most drivers, much less precisely calibrating it so your vehicle is not damaged too much to be unusable but still needed a massive amount of power to get free.
That’s an interesting counterpoint to something which happens to thousands drivers every year: having a bad storm cause them to sit in lengthy lines waiting for fuel (this was weeks the last time I was in Florida) or, in colder weather, idling through a tank of gas while stuck waiting for ice to be cleared.
In my country, one don't have to go off road to get in that situation. Here I can never trust an EV like I trust an ICE for going to unfamiliar places.
I have said it multiple times, but it is just wishful thinking that humanity will behave differently/responsibly w.r.t disposal/recycle of batteries as EVs start replace ICEs on a global scale. I think it will be an even bigger problem than the current issue with green house gas emissions as the current generation appear to be greatly apologetic to the associated issues, as the past, generation were to the issues of ICE.
The circle of collective blindness repeats!
Aside from anything else, if you're in a ditch your car probably isn't drivable and needs towing somewhere to get fixed anyway. Whether you've used 100km of EV range trying and failing to get out of the ditch of 100km worth of fuel trying to get out of the ditch is irrelevant. If you need to use that much effort to get out of the ditch before realising it's a stupid plan that's not going to work and the correct solution is to call a tow truck, then you definitely shouldn't be driving that vehicle anyway.
Or just have a second stationary battery to store up the energy while you're away during the day.
Not generally, although some are. The UL certification will put you at the top end of the $100 - $200 / kWh range I mentioned. Eco-worthy and UZ are two brands with such certification.
Will Prowse reviews a bunch of these.
Where I stay 8 panels is a "small" system. I have 20. In summer that generates 85% of my household needs. (It would be 100% but I deliberately only got a very small 5kw battery.)
In winter it's less (mostly because of heating requirements). But I have space for some more panels, so I'm running the numbers. (I'm currently getting 16% return on capital spent, and there's a point of diminishing returns.)
Obviously ymmv. There are roof, and land, constraints. There are financial constraints etc. But being off-grid, or partially off grid, is very possible for a lot of folk.
If the world can afford to manufacture 100 million light vehicles a year it can afford to manufacture the solar panels to power them.
Based on these average values I used, EVs fared slightly worse.
This was not factoring in costs of purchase or repairs etc. And all averages were taken off the internet so everything had to be taken with more than a grain of salt. But the outcome was nowhere near your statement of EV energy costing about half of the cost of gas for the driver.
There are some other parameters to consider too. Stopping for fuel is not something I enjoyed. I can charge at home. You won’t have to stop to refuel in an EV unless you’re going a long way. If you’re going a long way the stop will be longer. Much worse.
You won’t service an EV much, that’s nice.
The silence is bliss.
Humans are like this about a lot of things, imagine what it was like before widespread universal literacy. Why are we teaching everybody to read? What are they going to do with that skill? Until you've tried it, the fact that your entire populace can read doesn't seem like it would make a big difference.
And yes, there are also EV owners who are unhappy, but they are much less common. In general, when I talk to EV owners they would not go back to ICE.
Yes, I hear the objections. But I also see communities overcoming those problems. I was in London a couple weeks ago, and I saw multiple EV's parked on the street being charged from the nearest lamppost. This in areas with little to no off-street parking.
I noticed in parking garages more and more charging points. And so on.
Yes, I imagine price does vary. But if the landlord in my office block puts in electric chargers then I expect we'd negotiate the price with him. He wants to keep tenants happy. We want to keep staff happy. I imagine cost of the actual electricity to the employee would be barely above municipal cost rate (if not below it.)
When it comes to charging availability, it's a problem that's pretty easy to solve. The difference in the last 5 years is remarkable. And it will continue to expand as demand picks up. And it can be solved by individuals with individual capital. So it can happen almost overnight.
Well there's your problem. Try doing the same calculation with the average residential electricity cost. Most car use is for commutes after all, so most people can just charge their EV in their driveway every night.
Destination charging and rapid charging are notoriously expensive. It's a luxury product intended for a once-a-year road trip. It is not even remotely representative of your average charging cost. Street-side charging is slightly less excessive, but you're still paying a serious premium.
That does presume that those "most people" have a driveway where they can do charging. I.e., all apartment dwellers with cars in parking lots/garages (excluding those few that may have installed electrical plugs at each parking spot) are cut off, as are city dwellers without driveways who park on the street (or in another garage, again without electric hookups for charging).
Yes, eventually those garages and parking lots will likely include some form of "car charging" infrastructure, but until that happens, "most" is not as big of a percentage as that word makes it appear.
Maybe society can coordinate that? The CO2 being emitted isn't waiting
I pay around $.12/kw and get 4 miles per kw. So my "energy" costs are $.03/mile. I have a Mazda cx50 as well, it gets about 20-22mpg, with the gas prices here in Seattle that's around $.30/mile. Even where gas is cheaper that's still $.20/mile. Literally 10x the cost to run a gas car vs an EV.
I'm honestly shocked at how many people have EVs and rely on charging stations. I mean, I think it's a low number, but the fact that it's more than zero is shocking to me.
What actually matters is where extra generation occurs to handle the marginal new load of new electric vehicles.
Everyone fools themselves because they look at the current percentage of hydropower and think that is what powers their car - when it rarely is.
I've got a hybrid now, at least.
But even if you can’t find any of those, L2 charging at stations is half as expensive as fast charging.
My post wildfires NEM2 off peak rate for electricity is $.40/kWh. My Bolt gets 4.5 miles/kWh. That’s $.1125/mile.
If I were driving a Tesla it would be worse (my wife’s Tesla lies mercilessly about its range when full; it’s like Elon Musk recapitulates himself; real world it gets about 3.5 miles/kWh), and if I drove a Rivian it would be MUCH worse.
So, in California, it isn’t true at all (mostly because rate payers are funding PG&E’s liability) that the most efficient EVs are cheaper than a good mileage gas car. No where near a 2x advantage (it was better, but not nearly 50%, when I bought it, more like 90% of the gas cost). At no point has it ever been close to 50% cheaper for fuel in California (which, as it happens, sells by far the most EVs).
Generally speaking, I think EV proponents (like me!) should spend a lot less time promoting “it’s cheaper”. It is, in practice, cheaper, because maintenance is cheaper. But Americans don’t care about levelized costs, they care about the highest salience variable expenses, and trying to convince them to do otherwise is a losing argument.
And yes, I'm sure there are places where gas and electricity get closer together. In the US gas is mostly untaxed. So it's closer. Elsewhere the tax-cost of gas works in EVs favor. [1].
Also I think PG&E is perhaps not representative of electricity producers.
So sure, in your area, the finances only make sense if you factor in maintenance. And if gas prices remain stable. And if you don't have solar. But again, all these factors vary wildly in various places.
[1] in the long run these taxes will need to be made up elsewhere. So that's a temp saving. But I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
Filling the wagon today would cost me like 170 euro. Filling my xpeng happens overnight and is about 7-9 euro depending on grid pricing.
Negative externalities like pollution and climate change are not even priced in. Even if they were priced in, there are non-monetary factors that we could consider once in a while, but the conversation tends back to dollars.
Assuming you think price as a signal is the solution to dealing with those externalities, it doesn't matter what caused the price to be high.
How you account for the tax dollars received doesn't affect the pricing signal.
We have accounting systems to colour tax dollars. However that doesn't mean you can define cause and effect like you are attempting to do. Although I've no idea what we should do.
Not everyone is you.
You can recharge your car at home every night. At 2 in the morning.