Slow breathing modulates brain function and risk behavior
cell.com
cell.com
Lower energy state always wins unless chasing energy source.
As a young impressionable, I set out to understand and overcome performance anxiety as someone who suffered from it. After some reading, one of my conclusions was that I should do the most stressful thing possible to understand stress better and develop physical tolerance to stress. This culminated in me signing up for a series of Muay Thai interclub fights because getting punched (or kicked) in the head while pushing your heart rate to ~200bpm is definitely up there for “stressful circumstances”.
Turns out breathing really helps in that situation too beyond just taking in more oxygen - relaxation is critical for both technical execution and strategic thinking.
Slow breathing also really helps with freediving - another hobby of mine that I dabble with that happens to involve going deep (no pun intended) on conscious relaxation.
But sure, it’s just you taking in oxygen to moderate your heart rate. Here are some papers I surfaced for you and others who are interested
[0] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aan1466
[1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aai7984
[2] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/arti...
Your brain is attached to your inner skull with candyfloss like tendrils. They do not repair. Software engineering, even prompting, with a concussion or CTE is impossible.
I do agree that getting constantly hit in the head is probably not a good idea (e.g. boxing). If you want the stress of public speaking join Toastmasters or something ;)
I like to do all kinds of silly stressful challenge runs in games or sweaty PvP and to your point I've actually noticed that I actually perform better in games like Elden Ring with the music off because the music is designed to heighten your stress.
That all said, I can assure you that none of that comes remotely close to the visceral fear you experience when someone bigger, stronger, faster and better is walking you down in the ring. But overcoming that internal struggle - that is where the true growth lies.
That all said I actually train in a gym that is highly respectful, we train technically and we don't spar to hurt. The desired intensity is mutually communicated and the coaches are at hand to keep us in check. A "fun" way to dial up the intensity is to do heavy body sparring because it's generally pretty harmless but gives you a taste of throwing and receiving power shots (it is exhausting).
A gym with this culture is a fantastic environment for people to develop and I would encourage people to give it a try, no amount of audio-visual simulation will be a replacement for the tactile sensation of being hit and the associated anticipation that accompanies the experience. Our machinery is still animal and we originate from the physical world after all...
I appreciate that studies show that the brain basically never heals but sometimes you've got to live the way you want to live...
While the findings around CTE are pretty damning I would also point out that at this stage it is hard to ascertain what degree of sparring/fighting leads to problematic CTE down the line because frequency and intensity are so hard to control for from a scientific perspective. The brain is fragile but humans wouldn't have survived if we couldn't tolerate some degree of accumulated rough and tumble over our lifetimes.
But what a godsend propranolol has been for a contentious work situation causing extreme anxiety.
Wonderful to take ahead of a scheduled meeting that could have otherwise been an hour of physical panic that no rational thought (this will feel unimportant in a week, it's just job, etc etc) could quell.
Maybe some do, but I've never needed it. Often I actually find public speaking easier than small groups. In a small group my brain is trying to "model" what each person is thinking about my talk, as the groups get larger that becomes impossible and I tend to relax and let go. I also find the energy in a larger setting is a useful feedback mechanism. I might toss a small joke out and see if the audience is engaged, or I will ask a question and get a show of hands. The more I engage the calmer I feel and the more enjoyable the experience is for me and my audience.
Exercise increases heart rate. The more we exercise, the more the heart gets used to that adrenergic stimulation. This decreases the number of receptors to sense adrenaline in the heart, so whenever adrenaline rises again into the system, like in public speaking, we can handle it much better.
Exercise mitigates public-speaking anxiety. Particularly prolonged cardio.
Eventually, your body learns to adapt and understand that this thing you dreaded isn't so bad after all
using phones and laptops all day stuns your brain into shallow breathing all day.when i was kid i remember my dad taking naps in the afternoon and his belly moving up and down as he slept peacefully. i dont think anyone does that anymore.
i have a pet theory that this is what is driving high gastro cancers in young ppl.
Box breathing is 4 seconds inhale, 4 seconds hold, 4 seconds exhale, 4 seconds hold. IIRC you are supposed to take in as much air as you can on the inhale, and let it all out on the exhale.
After you do a few cycles of BB, take in as much air as you can, then hold your breath for as long as you can.
You'll feel the results immediately
> The selective impact of prolonged exhalation breathing on reward responsiveness has important implications for clinical contexts, such as anxiety, panic disorder, and depression, given their distinct autonomic signatures and maladaptive reward processing. By enhancing cardiac parasympathetic modulation through prolonged exhalation techniques, individuals may restore reward processing, a valuable pathway for emotional recalibration. Prolonged exhalation harbors the potential for a low-cost, low-risk, easily applicable intervention to be incorporated into therapy or rehabilitation programs, especially to support pharmacological treatments.
But I know a base jumper .. and he only does the jumps if he feels the fear and his kick is to overcome it and feel the adrenalin rush.
This sentence has beautifully crystallised the meaning of what it means to be an adrenalin junkie ^_^
I can identify with this “adrenaline junkie” definition, with qualifications. It’s probably different for everyone, but for me it’s more about “playing the edge”. I’ve crashed badly in the past going over that edge, but my-oh-my is it beautiful to approach, and get as close as you can, and look into the abyss for a moment. When the fear becomes too much, you back off. Over time (and survivorship bias!) you grow to have an immense respect for that edge.
Now, when I (rarely) go past the edge, I’m not flying past it to my death, my approach was appropriately calculated to produce a recoverable step-down or at worst a minor side-fall. I haven’t gone over the handlebars in years.
EDIT: People are a complex blends of emotions and motivations, so you're certainly right that can be another explanation for the same observable behavior. I really liked the comment about adrenaline junkies too. My point was only that on average it's low-sensitivity people who engage in those sorts of activities. Scaredy cats like myself stay home and read a good book.
... and then just ran with "yay, slow breathing!! Transformative, amirite??"
And sure, "transformative" is not technically incorrect. But the linguistic implications of that word are almost always positive/beneficial, whereas in this case the transformation is overwhelmingly negative.
At best, the manuscript's language is sloppy; at worst, it's misleading. Very odd. The finding that this technique is actually bad in most cases (every situation where additional risk-taking behaviour is bad) is so interesting. Odd that they almost try to cover it up.
> The finding that this technique is actually bad in most cases
Why do you think this?
Looking into this more, studies have found that we tend to rate the possible loss of $100 twice as painfully as the pleasure from the possible gain of $100. This can lead to irrational behaviors.
Increasing the weight we give to potential rewards is not necessarily a bad thing.
I think this can help explain the "calming of the nerves" that slow breathing promotes. If you need to speak in public and your heart is racing and you're shaking, this is an irrational reaction to what ought to be a very safe situation. By focusing more on the rewards (the acclaim for a good speech or whatever) and less on the imagined risks, you can calm down and speak naturally.
“If you feel jealous, talk about it, then we’ll figure something out”
In which one of the children wants the other one’s cool toy so the parent’s response is to encourage them to ask for it to be shared. Except they aren’t siblings and it’s the mom from the other family teaching their own jealous kid to go ask.
How about this?: Back off cat family, you fair weather commies — that’s Daniel’s bubble wand, not yours. At least share some of your own crap before asking for someone else’s:
”If you feel jealous: shut the fuck up, you can’t just have someone else’s stuff nor should you feel entitled to guilt them into sharing it just because you asked nicely.”
Slightly tongue-in-cheek. Slightly.
Kids learn really fast that they can't just act out with their peers for fear of rejection by the group. It's extremely strong and parents need to teach the other half of it, dealing with negative emotions WITHOUT acting out. I feel like DT does a disservice here.
Tangentially related, are there any wearable devices that allow for high resolution respiration monitoring? I'm imagining some measurement of lung expansion over time (probably at least 10 Hz) so that I can quantify the deepness/shallowness of my breaths as well as the phase of inhalation/exhalation cycles.
Remember to blink!
Additionally, there's a practice called "walking meditation" [0] that can also be useful to practice this area of skills.
I always thought that was part of their weirdness and maybe even some personality trait that led them to this sort of thing, but knowing it's an active choice makes it even weirder somehow.
People don’t like anxious people so it is part of charisma development like you do training for spiritual leadership or relational healing. Less anxiety means more tolerance for risk, ambiguity, etc. it is not “put it all on 7“
Common physical reflexes, autonomous responses, and subconscious regulation, are there as aids to us. The fact that they are not universally beneficial is one of the purposes of having higher level control. Not to universally suppress responses, but to notice and cope when they misfire.
It would be interesting to have a map of breathing patterns across a wide variety of situations, to identify the range of situations where prolonged exhalation is adaptive.
My guess, based on the common reflexes of mouth clamping and breath holding before great physical exertion, is that prolonged exhalation is part of an adaptive psychological orchestrator for when we prepare to take on something difficult, risky (but necessary), or that needs a fast strong response.
Our fast acting emotions, and slower acting moods, are similar guides. Patterns of stimulus and response from our baseline physiology and psychological, that we absorb into our higher level operation, as generalized guides for analogous responses to contexts at higher abstraction levels.
With minor maladaptive responses inevitable, if we don't pay attention. And severe maladaptive responses often ingrained as overcompensation for situational or developmental traumas.
Our brains trick us to breath on defaults adjusted to our surroundings.
What I have found working to slow down breath is:
1st willful exercise repetition,
2nd changing surrounding environment and lifestyle (nature, decluttwring, idleness, peaceful eating, proper sleep)
3rd gaining awareness about trigger mechanisms (overcommitments, overexpectations)
It is all self-regulating. And pretty much what mindfulnes, meditation, prayer or forest walk brings.
The results are specifically about a breathing that is slower due to prolonged exhalation.
This kind of breathing is one of the many kinds of breathing traditionally practiced in yoga and also in many Asian martial arts, each kind for different purposes.
The experiments used in TFA have used a breathing rhythm of 2-second inhalation with 8-second exhalation, which is about the same as how I learned this kind of breathing as a child, from a yoga manual.
I have never heard about a single breathing of any kind to have much effect. For any kind of breathing rhythm you may need to use it from a large fraction of a minute up to a few minutes to have a noticeable effect.
As explained in TFA, this particular kind of breathing rhythm changes the balance between the 2 components of the autonomic nervous system, in favor of the parasympathetic nervous system.
This has the effect to diminish the influence that fear has on making decisions.
TFA is interesting because it provides a scientific confirmation about the usefulness of this kind of breathing rhythm, which has been traditionally used for centuries, if not even for millennia, in India, China and other Asian countries.
Cant do this for everything but examples are supermarket lists, home viewing (know your price, questions, decision criteria)
You say fear is good, presumably because it stops you from doing things you don't know are dangerous.
But then you say you can do a technique to defeat fear when you know the fear is irrational.
But your argument starts from the premise that you don't know a situation is dangerous or not without the fear so how would you know it's irrational?
In my experience it's the opposite, most fear is not useful.
So maybe it's more about if you know you should not or can not run away from a fearful sitution you should take a deep breath. Whereas if you are on a dark street alone and a group of hooligans look like they might attack you then feel fear and instead of breathing deep, you should run.
Out of the emotions, the feeling urging us to avoid negative consequences seems pretty useful haha
Does anyone have advice about HRV specifically within the context of anxiety?
I've been measuring my SDNN using a Polar strap, and it hasn't really budged. However, I'm not taking that too seriously. I think my HRV is already fairly good because I bike. Anecdotally, I think the coherent breathing helps, especially if I _remember to do it in stressful moments_, not just in the morning.
In the experiments, slow inhalation with fast exhalation was never helpful, equal inhalation and exhalation was helpful only in certain circumstances and fast inhalation with slow exhalation (i.e. 2-second inhalation followed by 8-second exhalation) was always efficient in stimulating the parasympathetic nervous system and inhibiting the sympathetic nervous system.
The results from TFA are specifically for fast inhalation and slow exhalation, not for slow breathing in general.
The negative results from the article linked by you are perfectly consistent with the other results, which showed that equal inhalation and exhalation was useful only in certain circumstances, which were not tested in the article linked by you.
In general, slow breathing by fast inhalation and slow exhalation (or any other kind of slow breathing) does not have effects when you are already relaxed and having nothing to worry about, but only when you are stressed, either by anticipating that something bad will happen or while something bad is actually happening.
I wonder if people practicing sports / exercise that puts you in a cyclic breathing cycle i.e continuous effort run / cycling would have the same gain or not.
its when the tmj sorta dissolves and ur jaw/facial structure collapses as a result. now my airway is like a millimeter
Tokyo's Takashimaya store sold more than 300.
A five quart canister of 95% concentrated oxygen (weighing about six ounces) sells at 11 a can.
mindfulness and meditation have been seeing broad adoption - with apps like headspace etc also getting good traction
There is still resistance in India to teaching this in government schools.
(I dont feel very motivated to work in blockchain -- because by association it carries elements of crypto hype that I find distasteful)
Once you separate the physical excercise and its benefits and allow people the space to pursue them for their benefits without necessarily subscribing to new spirituality -- it has found broader appeal.
(Few decades ago smoking was widely accepted socially even though it was no secret that it damages health. It took a few decades of mounting scientific evidence for society to shun smoking. Takes time for society and cultures to accept new ideas.)
--
Resistance to teaching in schools ... from who?
Schools in india have a lot of shortcomings when it comes to physical education, sports and other life skills training -- yoga / meditation alone does not get any special treatment either for or against.
There is a lot more our schools can do better -- including surely physical exercise and meditation/breathing exercises.
If anything there is too much emphasis on making international yoga day a grand spectacle one day each year -- which surely involves involuntary participation by schoolkids -- with no lasting benefits except PR.
Even the most vocal debates of today about school curriculum (see CBSE / NCERT in current affairs) dont have any arguments for or against extra curricular or non academic skills in school.
We broadly have a long way to go in making our education curricula well rounded. Would welcome more genuine elements of physical wellbeing and meditation included (without any burden of spitiruality mixed in -- which can create the resistance you might be referring to).
The idiocy of thinking calmness leading to optimal results. Usually this comes from people who never accomplished anything.
The paper is the prime example of pseudo science masquerading as science.
That alone should make us skeptical of simplistic claims that calmer physiological states are inherently "more optimal" for complex cognition.
Even outside wartime great accomplishments come through obsession though, but I would say that the people who “make it” in academia are the ones who are kinda sanguine about the family business as opposed to the driven outsiders.
>The moon crossed the sky so quickly, it seemed time itself had sped up. My soldiers readied their arms and waited for the order to attack, but the phenomenon was so strange and unsettling, they thought it a bad omen, and I could see the fear in their eyes.
Modern reenactment would be Asano Tadanobu during the eclipse scene in The Mongol (or during the whole movie, really)
(Remember that he volunteered for war
They also made Napoleon highstrung all the time, that the most accurate portrayal might be the one without gravitas people don't care about , the one with John Malkovich.
Some will argue sleepy Napoleon is also accurate, but how about the Japanese AI taking the opp to indulge in some loving cultural appropriation (glorified fanbiz). BC Asano has shown us he too can comedy. )
Psychopaths (any inappropriately calm people) might be necessary for advancement but not for reasons or traits that are easy to obtain (or fake)
Unless (but not sufficiently) one _chooses_ to go against one's own grain
>Only a vision of the whole, like that of a saint, a madman, or a mystic, will permit us to decipher the true organizing principles of the universe
Most terrifying (ie awe-inspiring) should be a madman who can fake that he cares about anything at all, including other people?
Until someone comes up with a food-synthesis process based on fossil sources (e.g., petrochemicals, limestone, or the like), this will be the case.
That's not to say that the agricultural food cycle is net thermal-forcing neutral as there are 1) fossil fuel inputs (ICE engines, generation, and Haber-Bosch nitrogen fertiliser fixation most notably), 2) other greenhouse gas emissions (notably methane from livestock), and 3) some carbon emission from ground tillage and release of carbon from topsoil. But none of those will be much affected by your respiratory rate.