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Comment by gzer0 | Hacker News Reader

Some context for people who haven’t followed the full loop: Shazeer was a long-time Google researcher, joined Google in 2000, and was one of the co-authors of “Attention Is All You Need.”

He left Google in 2021 to co-found Character.AI. In 2024, Google brought him and some Character.AI researchers back via a licensing/talent deal with Character.AI (reportedly around $2.7B). He was then made a Gemini co-lead.

Now he’s leaving Google again for OpenAI.

Exciting times!

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For context, the reason he left Google the first time was because Google wouldn't ship the chatbot-type products that he saw were possible.

Google bought him back (with lots of money) and made him one of the leads of Gemini.

I first saw Noam on Dwarkesh’s podcast together with Jeff Dean. Recommend if you want a taste of what’s Google’s folks take on things.

https://youtu.be/v0gjI__RyCY?is=nz77XP4KiJy7L1AX

At this point is it even pay that’s tempting or is it more about what they get to do? I would assume Google could easily pay them what openAI can, unless as an older company it’s harder for Google to match something really out there

Yeah my current feeling is that once I had double digit millions earning further money would be pretty meaningless to me, and the difference between 'large salary' and 'even larger salary' would be even more meaningless, but who knows maybe it really would change me. I kind of assume people like this are primarily chasing the most interesting/impactful work though.

The problem with this belief is that it implies that all of bigtech is massively overpaying for top talent who would happily stay on for pennies. While bigtech overpaying talent is more plausible than any other bigcorp doing so, it's still rather unlikely.

Only if there was a cartel which would agree to never outbid each other, of course... You can ask Steve Jobs about that one.

I think money’s marginal utility just changes from a vehicle for material comfort to a way to keep score.

It gets to the point where what you do is the main question while payment is barely a minor concern way earlier than that point, at least in my experience. You don't need to be in the top AI research tier for that.

How can an acquired dude leave after less than 2 years?

OpenAI pays for the earn out he would’ve otherwise received at Google + a new comp package. Made up numbers, if Google still owed him $10M for lasting the full two years, OpenAI can just pay him market rate +$10M.

Yes, but what about the audacity of it? Get paid a lot to join a company but then decide to get up and leave again 2 years later? He just wants to be passed around?

You can have character and be loyal to Google (lol) or make $xx million… I’m not surprised when people choose the latter.

I would argue its not the millions though, but rather that sweet rare compute - OpenAI has more of it for his interests than anyone - it is understandable why an exceptional mind would prioritize access to greater capabilities above all else

Oh my goodness think of the poor multi-trillion dollar company!! No honour among thieves these days...

There's a possibility that he lost out in internal political battles, and things weren't going his way. Google is full of battle-hardened political warriors who will do anything (subterfuge, sabotage, etc.) to win battles. It is possible that a guy who just wants to build cool shit would feel like a misfit in such an environment.

But he worked there previously and is Intelligent so knew all that before rejoining?

True. But earlier he had the ear of people like @jeff ; but now even Jeff has been sidelined a little (Google Brain is no longer under Jeff, AFAIK). The MBA types can be brutal and since they're not technical, they don't have the same level of respect and deference for Noam.

Google is a different place today than even 5 years ago.

$$$$

Noam Shazeer is not some super brain anymore.

His raw skills are likely atrophied by now from delegating and operating at higher levels. His entire value is mostly political now.

If he can’t play the political game and win, he’s useless. He would probably just go to some other organization where people aren’t immune to his lore.

Hopefully will get to the conclusion that "Hopfield Networks is All You Need"

> Exciting times!

What is exiting about this?

Maybe he figured out a good way to short AI companies?

Right?! Unless you think this move is going to generate general excitement in our lives, it's just another rich guy moving from one high paying job to another.

this character.ai? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3xgwyywe4o

The Netflix documentary will reveal he was secretly working for Sam Altman the whole time... (Cue diabolical VC-backed evil laugh.)

Google lost three critical years chasing AGI, and got acquired by SpaceX, now a Dyson Sphere startup whose pitch deck is just: "What if we put a paywall around the Sun?"

Oui!

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