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Comment by piva00 | Hacker News Reader

Air conditioning is not needed in most of Europe, no idea why that would be a measurement of economic advancement.

Krugman presented arguments with data, it'd be nice to see your data that counters Krugman's argument, not a whole different set of measurements that you are defining as the basis of comparison. It's just a strawman with makeup.

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That does not seem to ring true. 175k people die annually of heat in Europe.

https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/01-08-2024-statement--h...

There is really no similary between the most populous areas of Europe and, say, Columbus or Chicago or .... The summers in eastern America are savage and inhuman; the winters, by contrast, are ... savage and inhuman.

People complain about the weather in England, but in fact there are palm and eucalyptus growing in Oxford, though it's bad taste and you might lose one in a bad winter. It never gets hot and never gets cold.

I realized after living in UK and Germany that the religious fanatics who founded USA must really have been oppressed to put up with it.

So despite a nicer climate more people die of heat in Europe than the US which just makes Europe look a lot worse.

either that or the U.S doesn't consider the same data when making its stats

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-deaths-from-h...

Where two sets of stats are concerned always make sure they actually are using the same criteria for reporting.

I am using the adjusted numbers. Official are 2k and scientist adjusted are around 12k. WHO's estimate for Europe is 175k. I do find all the European justification here to show a lot about what Europeans actually think of their own citizens. The numbers make us look bad and so the numbers must be wrong because we can never look bad in this way is such a modern American leadership way of looking at it.

>Air conditioning is not needed in most of Europe

hello, I came here from one week in the future to laugh at you.

Most of Europe doesn't need air conditioning? By what measures/what large countries don't have any need there?

Poland, Germany, Switzerland, Benelux, the Nordics, Baltics, most of Central Europe don't have a need for AC. It might make life more comfortable during some days of heatwaves but it's definitely not a need to survive.

Southern Europe has experienced more scorching heat the past 1-2 decades and AC is going to become a necessity given the trend of climate warming but it's not Arizona.

Also I think people aren't aware that the USA doesn't use the same methodology to count heat-related deaths, a heart attack from someone working out in the fields on 35C+ weather is not counted as heat-related, Scientific American published an article about it back in 2024[0].

[0] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/u-s-deaths-from-h...

If "need" is defined as directly required to survive, but that isn't how I would define it. (So many things aren't "needed" then.)

A need is a necessity, is AC a necessity or a comfort? It's only a need if without it your life would be so insufferable that you cannot live normally, otherwise it's not a need but a comfort.

Many things aren't needed, survival doesn't mean biological survival so you don't need to bring up "a smartphone isn't a need" since without one a life in modern society becomes quite insufferable (banking access, government access, etc.).

Is AC a need or a comfort to you given this?

Some people live their lives quite ok without a smartphone in Germany, for example - so not a need there either.

I don't like the heat, so need for me - comfort is a need.

> It might make life more comfortable during some days of heatwaves but it's definitely not a need to survive.

Well I don't know , I lived 4 years in the Netherlands in one of those apartments that have huge windows on every room. During the summer some days got closed to 37-38c and the sun sets at what , 11PM ? I was pretty scared our newborn might die - I put a fan right on her of course but I'm not sure this setup is OK at all.

    the sun sets at what , 11PM ?

No. Even now, in the longest days of the year, the sun sets at 10pm, and we're not even into the hottest days of the year for another month or two as the days continue to get shorter again.

Yeah 10PM is still really bad, the house becomes a freaking oven

The numbers you cite are from last year, which was unusual historically as records, not the norm. The sunset in the hottest month will be 9pm, and those highs of >30C are experienced for less than one week. I think you're missing the point of the parent posters where it's over 25C in the large parts of the US for 3-4 months of the year.

Baltics definitely have need for AC for few weeks in summer. Just because some people get by, doesn't mean there isn't a need.

It's the reality: it doesn't get hot in the summer and it doesn't get cold in the winter. The climate is 'maritime' and moderated by the immense influence of the Atlantic/Mediterranean/Baltic. On the east coast of USA you might expect the same, but the wind is from the west and thus to some extent reproduces the savage 'continental' weather of the interior. The main body of Americans live in extremely hostile weather environments.

Around 40C isn't hot? Around -20C isn't cold, for example?

Europe is not a country or a single place. In central Spain, where 40 ºC is more likely, you'll find more air conditioning than in the UK, where people think that 25 ºC is hot.

Yeah that used to be true 40 years ago maybe

>Air conditioning is not needed in most of Europe

Uhh... https://imgur.com/a/MTTMKDr

So you are saying AC is a need in the Netherlands for the odd week of heatwaves in a year?

Installing thousands to millions of AC compressors, piping, having the grid ready for the spike in consumption when all these ACs turn on, etc. is a necessity that needs to happen because The Hague is reaching 30C for 3 days in the next week?

Buddy, this is far from three days a year in some specific Dutch city. We have this happening all over the continent. You're just out of touch.

Interesting how little lives are worth to Europeans given how many die due to heat each year. To beat America in indifference to one's own people is an actual achievement.

How are you feeling now?

I am unaware of the US situation, but there are vast differences in housing quality across Europe. Compare the Netherlands, even bad parts of the countryside, to the Greek or Romanian countryside. WTF! And where you'd need air conditioning (Southern Italy, Sicily, Southern Greece) you won't find air conditioning, outside of some very rich enclaves (like parts of Malta, a small part of Sicily, some Greek and Adriatic Islands). And there's 1 reason for that: they can't afford it.

And if we're being entirely honest ... most large European cities I've seen certainly could benefit from having half thrown down and rebuilt. As well as essentially all of the smaller ones.

And as for one of Paul Krugman's comment "Americans, however, have more stuff, that is, material goods: Our houses and cars, in particular, are much bigger. Europeans, on the other hand, have more time ..."

That's not because Europeans don't want big houses, don't want infinite stuff. In very large parts of Europe they can't afford it. And they certainly want more and longer jobs. They just can't find jobs that pay enough to justify giving up free time. But would they work, say, 44 hours per week for a 15-20% raise? (because it's 15-20% more compared to a 38 hour week) I know people that wouldn't, but I also know people that would love such an opportunity.

> That's not because Europeans don't want big houses, don't want infinite stuff. In very large parts of Europe they can't afford it.

But this is true of the USA as well, large parts of it people cannot afford a big house, a bigger car, and they have fewer options of smaller dwellings, smaller cars to choose from when they cannot afford the biggest, most expensive options.

Wanting infinite stuff is definitely much less prevalent in Europe than in the USA, the materialistic culture is very different (and it differs even more between countries in Europe).

> I am unaware of the US situation, but there are vast differences in housing quality across Europe. Compare the Netherlands, even bad parts of the countryside, to the Greek or Romanian countryside. WTF!

Compare the housing quality in rich coastal cities of the USA vs the Appalachia, WTF!

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