Mechanical Watch (2022) | Hacker News Reader

Mechanical Watch (2022)

ciechanow.ski

745 pointsrazin128 comments

This article inspired me to build an exploded view of a mechanical watch movement in real-life (2025): https://fellerts.no/projects/epoch.html

Were my father still alive I would pay you nearly anything for such a model. Or would totally be inspired to work on this for his next year's birthday (he would have had his 80th bd next year).

This made me smile and in remembering cry. Thanks a ton kind stranger. It was a lovely stroll down memroy lane. I still have a few pieces from his collection that are near and dear to my heart.

This is one of the nicest things about objects like watches

Thank you for your post! It's only through yours I got to know about the posted article. Your efforts on the exploded view are mind blowing!

> Bartosz, if you are reading this, contact me and I'll send you the final casting. This project would never have happened without your blog post.

Did he ever contact you?

This is wonderful

The author seems too humble to put a giant Patreon link in a popup (it's at the very bottom), but in case anyone wants to know how to support: https://www.patreon.com/ciechanowski/membership?vanity=ciech...

As a teacher I understand how difficult it is to explain complex topics in a simple step by step way.

The site has some really impressive technical aspects, but the educational angle is the most rare and special! The simplicity of the language and explanations disguise how difficult this is to do.

This is the original use of the internet- giving away free knowledge to people, perfectly suited for the medium of a website.

While I do agree, if the author is reading the comments one piece of feedback I have is the overuse of the phrase "In this article I will...". It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine, and they use a version of the phrase three times in the first four paragraphs.

I find the convention whereby authors 'explicitly tell readers what they're going to do' a hallmark of good explanatory writing, so long as the writing is supposed to be explanatory and the author follows through.

So your comment got me to take a closer look, and yeah, the author could certainly cut "in this article" and "in this blog post" from the third and fourth paragraphs.

Otherwise, yeah, this is an excellent piece of work. Reminds of that ancient, short, black and white film from General Motors that artfully demonstrates how differentials work.

If the HN commentariat knows of similarly excellent educational work that uses intuitive visual to explain software concepts, please do share.

I have not gone through it yet, but this explanation of how transformers work is in the same class as Ciechanowski's work IMO: https://poloclub.github.io/transformer-explainer/

For JPEG compression: https://parametric.press/issue-01/unraveling-the-jpeg/#param... (anchor doesn't work for me, but it's the one with the caption "Move slider to adjust the amount of subsampling applied." which made me understand the motivation behind using chroma)

For polygon sum/union/difference: https://sean.fun/a/polygon-clipping-pt1/ (the diagram captioned "Combined Fill Annotations" at https://sean.fun/a/polygon-clipping-pt2/#annotating-segments is my favourite visual proof)

For cryptanalysis: https://random.tastemaker.design

For Fourier transforms: https://brianmcfee.net/dstbook-site/content/ch05-fourier/Sim...

For digital typesetting of Arabic: https://lr0.org/blog/p/arabic/

I learned this as "Tell them what you're going to tell them, tell them, then tell them what you told them."

I'd rather read imperfect human writing than modern day AI slop. Seeing human writing "mistakes" like this is a breath of fresh air.

After looking at this enormous labor of love, is this really what you chose to comment about?

The combination of straightforward explanations and clear diagrams reminds me of David Macaulay's The Way Things Work which is one of my favorite books.

Probably my favorite thing about the author's posts is that it's all handwritten, vanilla code - as far as I can tell. It seems like all the HTML, CSS, and JS are just plain, standard, universal code. It's one of the few "advanced" sites that just works on an old iPhone 7, for example. So many modern sites that use modern frameworks just don't work anymore.

Also just a huge fan of using the existing infrastructure of browsers - even older ones - in effective ways. Browsers have been quite capable for awhile now.

I find there is something indescribably fascinating with mechanical timepieces. I'm more of a clock guy than a watch guy, though I've had plenty of watches apart, and the two disciplines merge in many places. I've learned so many new mechanical skills in my now six year journey to be able to repair these things, and to learn to repair them is to learn to make them, as you need to know how to fabricate every single piece in order to be able to repair any movement, thus why clock and watch repairers are called clockmakers and watchmakers.

Related I guess, but these celebrity "bling" watches are entirely the least interesting part of horology.

Yeah, it's always interesting when I run into watch guys --- my father's 27-jewel Seiko is too large for my wrist, and the date wheel is broken (and I can't find anyone willing to fix it w/o a donor watch), so I wear quite modest watches such as a Timex Indiglo, or a Seiko Solar --- folks are understanding and sympathetic and almost always have stories about repairs, or watches which they are hoping to have the chance to buy.

Wear whatever makes you happy without apology. Rolex, Timex, Apple Watch. Whatever. I find a large inverse relation between people who care about the cost of the watch you wear and people who are actually interested in the mechanical function of a watch.

Agreed. That's been my experience, and is part of why I haven't been able to bring myself to buy something more expensive.

I've never owned a mechanical watch(did just recently buy an Orient solar watch after I lost my fitbit while traveling and after a couple weeks, realised the only feature I actually missed was having the time on my wrist), but I like watching the channel Wristwatch Revival on youtube. That guy will often repair old watches that most watchmakers won't touch, sent in by viewers, and make content out of it. And he especially loves taking on watches thathave sentimental value for the owner.

He also recently started a watch repair shop specifically catering to cases most watchmakers won't accept, might be worth checking out.

https://www.youtube.com/c/WristwatchRevival/

https://restoration.sutcliffehansen.com/

Tempting, but "Services start at $1,750" --- I could buy multiple replacements for that, or make a downpayment on the Seiko Grandmaster or GPS which I want...

That said, I'll keep it in mind and maybe if I come across a windfall will apply thusly....

For a Seiko, I'll also recommend https://www.theseikologist.com/. As his name suggests, he specializes in Seikos and has a large stock of vintage Seiko parts which are hard to source. Though, it's still not cheap. I have a broken Seiko chronograph from the 70s and he quoted $500 to just do the watch equivalent of a tune up. He can't give a better estimate without opening it up, which is understandable.

If it isn't a hardship, I do recommend fixing your dad's watch. Sentimental pieces are always special.

Thanks! That's far more in-line with the value of the watch and my own finances --- bookmarked!

One of the draws of mechanical watches compared to digital is that they, in theory, can always be repaired and will last a lifetime. In reality, not so much since the cost to do maintenance or repair is astronomical compared to buying a new watch, and one that does not have any surprise costs.

I had an automatic that was my "one and done" watch - a cheap Citizen diver - I wore it 24/7 until it started losing minutes per day. While looking into who or where I could fix it, I bought a G-Shock out of curiosity and never wore a mechanical watch again.

You should have said "to buying a new cheap watch". The average cost of maintenance and worn-out parts' replacement for a self-winding Omega (worth 7k+) was about $800 in 2020, done once every 10 years.

I'm in a similar boat and I find it really hard to talk watches with folks who are experienced in the way of the Rolex AD.

I really enjoy cheaper vintage watches that call back to when everyone had one of them on their wrist.

Something about a semi-autonomous machine ticking away on your wrist, whether you're looking at it or not, using no electricity, is just intrinsically satisfying to me.

I got into watch servicing pre-covid, but never got into actual fabrication of parts. I mention pre-covid because it really got popular when everyone was stuck inside and there was a sudden loss of cheap ebay parts watches to pick from.

Rolex ADs are just a para-social gatekeeper for Veblen goods, but there's a huge resurgence in the entry level Swiss Automatic space with some fantastic value propositions in the likes of the enormously popular Tissot PRX 80 line (hello Rolex Land-dweller), or the more recent output from smaller marques like Christoper Ward who are producing COSC certified swiss-made watches for about 4x markup whilst Omega and the rest are jacking up prices quarter on quarter.

You're not wrong.

There is a particular irony about Rolex, as historically they made good quality tool watches, aimed at divers, pilots, scientists etc. These were affordable, akin to a photographer buying a good quality affordable camera. It's bizarre to see these workaday watches with prices jacked up astronomically and sold as luxury goods.

It's also sad to see Omega beginning to play this game, though at the moment they are the only company using the brilliant coaxial escarpment which any watch geek has to appreciate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_escapement

Whilst you mention decent entry level Swiss watches, don't forget the humble Seiko 5. Models are available for less than £100, use a wonderfully basic entirely in-house movement and (if you are vain enough to care about these things) will get a nod from any self-respecting watch geek.

I recently bought the book 'Watch Repair for Beginners' for reference (a project I slightly unwisely agreed to do).

It has some great diagrams, but obviously nothing on these interactive animations (er, naturally, since it is a book).

However the author (Harold C. Kelley) has descriptions for the diagrams similar to a maths proof - like "Warning lever W is raised in position to engage the pin P ... The unlocking lever U lifts the drop lever D ..." - not easy to follow, but maybe if you have the mechanism in front of you!

I think one of my favourite things about an automatic is that its design calls for it to be worn and not collected. If you collect them, then you'd either be wnding or shaking them when you actually want to wear them, so they aren't automatic. It forces you to wear, and therefore own, just the one, which is how it should be. I have a seiko 5 which i always wear except in the shower.

Anyone with a few auto mechanicals will tend to be a 'luxury' watch collector and almost certainly have an auto-winder watchbox or similar solution. It gets way too finnicky to constantly reset crown based Chronos, nevermind something with wheel based control like an AirKing.

Those who collect manual-winders tend towards trench watches, marriage watches converted from pocket or 1950-69 era vintage Omegas and the like - as the Timex/Hamilton/Seagull re-issues hold little cachet to a collector. The glaring recent exception being the appalling SwatchxAP collab with the hand-wound version the SISTEM51 movement, bringing the worst aspects of both manual wind movements and the unservicable and ultimately disposable nature of contemporary swatch movements.

Any reason for not wearing yours in the shower? I wear mine pretty much all the time except sleep.

I wear mine to sleep and that's where I get tremendous value out of it! I have small kids who are up one or more times overnight, and it's the first thing I check - is it midnight? Closer to 4am? Helps me make immediate decisions about how to handle the situation.

Oh that makes sense.

I just don’t like the discomfort of wearing one in bed.

I love that there's not only the internals of a standard three-hand, but the automatic mechanism as well. If you're going pure mechanical, an automatic is the best way. As long as you actually move during the day the watch generally stays wound up (though a twist when you put it on is a good measure). There's a ton of great watches out there powered only by walking around, and it's fascinating to look at what they can do with that.

The mechanics of a six-hand are similar, using the mechanism that is described here for the date indicator.

Another fun device, though more from an EE POV, are the solar+radio/GPS versions of the same. Automatics can hold power for a few days and need walking around to wind. Solar needs light (any light, though sunlight is always best) and hold power for over a month. Many higher-end models can self-set over radio time or GPS signals as well.

When the world goes tits-up someday, both classes of watches will suddenly become essential, and are already essential for people who spend a good amount of time "unreachable" for work or pleasure.

Casio Oceanus S100 is made of titanium, adjusts itself over the radio[0], understands 29th of February, sets itself on/off DST, never needs tinkering or battery change, and sells for a whooping $350. It's the watch you can set all your other watches to.

[0] Don't have radio coverage where you live? "There's an app for that" -- or several -- that simulate radio control signals.

Ooh, that is a nice quartz watch! Really good review here: https://www.peterferenczi.com/blog/2023/3/19/the-casio-ocean...

Sensor Watch has a temperature sensor and compensation software. It's a Casio F-91W replacement and right up there with the best temperature compensated quartz watches. Less than $100, open source software and hardware.

That was on my short list, but I liked the look of the Seiko SBTM339 more (though it's a JDP model so I had to import it). Citizen has a model in that range as well. Then the Seiko Astron line has both radio time and GPS models if you're willing to pay 5x as much (they do look so much nicer, though).

And I can confirm the radio time app works. (For those curious, it plays the time signal over the speaker and the faint EM from the speaker is more powerful locally than the original radio signal at distance, as well as landing on the correct frequencies.)

I also recommend this demonstration from 1949, in that excellent style they used back then with large scale physical models and stop-motion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMW-QWPZEm0

I have LOVED the beauty of mechanical watches my entire life. About 15 years ago, I started a little savings account to purchase an Omega Speedmaster. I have long since past the amount needed to purchase that beautiful timepiece, but I now have a wife, child, and house. The money is still there, but I cannot seem to pull the trigger. My wife says she is entirely Ok with me doing this as we are comfortable money-wise, but the "dad" in me keeps saying "You might need that money for a rainy day."

It might be worth purchasing one second hand, then most of the depreciation is already gone. If you need the money, you're likely to recoup most of it by re-selling.

Or buy a nice Swiss automatic in the 1-2000 range.

Or a $300 Seagull 1963 (the Chinese bought the rights, the design, and the machines.)

Those look really nice (love the moon phase indicator that some of them have too!), but the "red star" motif on the watch face does put me off.

Do you have any good recommendations for me?

Good starting points for first Swiss mechanical are Tissot, Hamilton, Mido, or Certina. They all belong to the same conglomerate (the Swatch Group).

The "gateway drug" these days seems to be Tissot PRX. Their quartz models are about half the price of their mechanical ones.

I just grabbed a Tissot Gentleman 38mm as my first Swiss machine. Same movement but a little smaller, and in my opinion a more handsome case

The Gentleman is a great starter watch, enjoy!

Go for the second hand speedmaster from a reputable seller. This is the one you want and will eventually buy. If you really want to know more than you should about the watch, get the moonwatch only book. This is the bible that will help you to check everything from every version ever of the myth. Even if you don’t buy at the end, if you’re a geek I can assure you you’ll dig the content. The movements in those Tissot watches are crap, you’d be better get a serviced vintage in the 500-700 euros range than those glorified fashion watches in my opinion.

> The movements in those Tissot watches are crap

Interestingly, if you'd like to see a really cool site that showcases how these crap Tissot movements work, just click the link at the top of this page.

(The Powermatic 80 movement in the entry-level Tissot models is a modified version of ETA 2824 which Ciechanowski is showing on his site.)

Well, crap was maybe too strong of a word but they're nothing to write home about and not very precise (–4 to +10 seconds). OP seems attached to historical value, and if you ask me there's more interesting vintage watches to buy for that money, and some watches that will hold their value and aesthetics way more than PRX, which is all the rage now and will probably get old pretty fast.

> nothing to write home about and not very precise

A work-horse is neither a show-horse nor a race-horse.

Is it reliable enough to be a work-horse ? Not sure it's even serviceable.

Reliable pretty much yes; serviceable -- depends on your definition of that. For about USD 200, Tissot will take care of your watch and send it back to you in a working condition. Note that they will probably replace the whole movement. FWIW, Seiko will probably do the same "service" on their 4R/6R movements which are their "workhorses."

Rolex just launched a integrated bracelet model and Royal Oaks have been popular with celebrities for decades, that style is probably here to stay.

Huge fan of anything with the Powermatic 80. Mine gains about 3 seconds per day. I wear a Rado but I believe both Tissot and Hamilton also offer this movement.

I have thought of this, but I would forever live in fear that I had been ripped off by a fake.

I'm in a similar boat as you - from what I can tell, best bet is to buy from Chrono24, used, from a dealer with good reviews, and pay ~250 additional for chrono24's certification service in which they guarantee its authenticity.

I've been waiting for years to pull the trigger on the Speedmaster, and recently decided on the white dial one. I say decided, but mean that's the one I want but can't bring myself to click purchase :]

2022 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31261533

Are we allowed to see it again?

Yes, I remember the GPS post, but somehow missed this one the first go-round. I love how HN can resurface an old post deserving of a few re-posts.

Yes, why not. When I posted my comment, year wasn't in the title. I was very excited to see this, sent to my friend and he said to me that it's an old one. So I posted my comment to make people aware of that.

Oh yes! Reposts are welcome after a year or so. This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html.

We particularly want new cohorts of users to get acquainted with the classics :)

When users (or mods) link to previous threads, the intention is simply to share other troves of comments for curiosity gratification purposes.

I got really excited thinking it was a new post for a second :(

Thanks! Macroexpanded:

Mechanical Watch (2022) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38591084 - Dec 2023 (163 comments)

Mechanical Watch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31261533 - May 2022 (413 comments)

Another one from Dec, 2023: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38591084

As observed from a comment [1] in a previous discussion: in the first animation the time and date shown are actually correct (per your web browser) when it initially renders, though it does not increment as the seconds hand reaches 12.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31261533#unv_31268444

My 8yo son plays with this any chance he gets. We've started building watches together as a result (simple "drop in movement mods", but aspirations of building our own movement). The author really made something special.

What an outrageously cool and informative website. Love it.

I'm back to mostly wearing analog watches. Had an Apple Watch on my wrist for quite a long time, but something about analog appeals once more. No smartwatch beats an analog in the style department, and I see analog everywhere around me ('burbs of NYC)

It's been more than a year since his last post. Anyone know what's up?

Maybe the article is done. He did make a few blog posts since then including seven months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/wristwatchrevival if anyone loves stuff like this. He's great!

I've been fascinated by mechanical watches for years. It can become a deep rabbit hole (like most hobbies). I frequently have watch restoration videos playing in the background as I'm doing things and love the process of taking apart, cleaning, and reassembling these watch movements. Wristwatch Revival is probably my favorite. I has encouraged me to tear apart a few watches of my own to give them a good service. As complex as they look, most follow a very similar process to rebuild.

This (re-)triggered a huge (dormant?) mechanical watch special interest for me when it was first posted.

Neurospiceys tread carefully.

I hope nobody tells the neurodivergent about rotatewatches.com or diywatch.club, because it's been a money sink...

NNNOOO000ooo...…

When studying distributed systems you have to convince yourself that clocks cannot be relied on. It is hard to do so because all the clocks around me are always working just fine.

When this article was posted here earlier I got an idea that maybe wearing a mechanical watch for a while might help.

I bought a cheap mechanical watch. It needs manual winding daily. If you take it off your wrist it gets out of sync with the other clocks or just stops.

Few weeks with that clock convinced me.

This YouTube video shows (silently!) the assembly of a watch very similar to the one drawn in this blog. I found it quite informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kILYJ0qFhHM

I have a mechanical watch. I absolutely love it. Much more stylish than a smart watch.

I bought it over 10 years ago now for around £400. So not super expensive but it works perfectly for me and is a great accessory.

Relevant YouTube channel for a deep dive:

https://www.youtube.com/@chronovaengineering

This piece made me kind of fall in love with mechanical watches. The Orient Bambino I’m currently rocking on my wrist probably wouldn’t be there without it!

" it may be hard to believe that merely a few decades ago the most convenient way to keep track of time was a mechanical watch." I guess quartz is more convenient if you often take the watch off for more than a day. But my swiss automatics dont need a regular battery change, just a servicing every decade (or longer). I guess there are solar powered quartz watches though.

Coincidentally for the last week or so I've revived my Glycine automatic as my daily wearer and I'm gauging my level of dependence on my Apple watch. So far -- hey, I wasn't all that dependent on it, and I guess, I was feeling a bit too digital. I'm going to keep going for a while this way.

Which Glycine? I’ve got a 2007 Airman Special II, 42mm, with the 12 at the top - hour hand points at the sun.

My wife finds yard sale watches and has me change the battery, but then I open one, a tiny thing and it's not battery powered but there are layers of tiny tiny gears. Mind boggling. (pro tip, a "bench knife" has a tiny blade that's optimized for plying open watch cases)

I just want to make sure that this is what you are talking about:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bench+knife

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-ihwnd7z21q/images/stencil/12...

The term GP was looking for is "Caseback Knife":

https://diplomatwinders.com/cdn/shop/products/55035knife_102...

Ah, yes ... that seems more reasonable. Thank you.

Be warned, once you get into mechanical watches it can be a debilitating addiction. :-). I started out with a Tag Heuer Aquaracer Professional and then sold that to buy an Omega Seamaster Diver which I love. I’m lusting for a Audemars Piguet Royal Oak but that’s a ways off.

This blog remains one of the most inspirational interactive websites for me. It really nails both clarity and remains interactable, fun. When (if ever) LLMs are able to generate interactables like these, is when I will hang up my coat.

I've been hyper fixated on mechanical watches this year, and I'm so happy to have this resource, it's clarified my gaps, and corrected multiple misunderstandings.

Very excited to get home and rebuild my keyless!

I saw this years and years ago, and it's actually one of my favorite things I've ever seen on the web. I recommend reading from start to finish.

I'm given pause every time I come across an article from this site; the detail and "playful" nature of the content is so good.

Does anyone have recommendations for cheapish mechanical watches that don't cost a fortune to service? (UK based) Secondhand or new.

Seiko 5 is the go-to recommendation for inexpensive mechanical watches

If you get any cheapish mechanical watch with a widely available movement (EG an NH35 or NH36), it makes more sense not to service it, and just replace it when (if) it wears out. That's what I do with my Seikos.

Seiko 5 and Seiko 5 GMTs are great, but Orient is also a worthy contender.

Check microbrand atlas. A map with many microbrands(almost), including UK. https://microbrandatlas.com/

A watch service costs more than a cheap watch, if you define cheap as under $300-500. If you get a Seiko or Citizen with a common movement, you can just have the movement replaced if something goes wrong. I’m not a fan of low end Swiss watches, Japan does them better.

One of the best presentations I have ever seen. This article should be made standard for learning about mechanical watches.

On-demand ciechanow.ski caliber articles are a pretty good AGI indicator. All the work on that site is wonderful.

Ineffably magnificent... no words may express how simply ingenious and incredible both the website work and such the marvel the work is attributed to...

What if schools would provide children such marvel? Yes, that requires a sufficient time to achieve, but dear... it's just... a miracle...

Related: https://ciechanow.ski/archives (Bartosz Ciechanowski...)

Physical time-keeping signatures, and hash values that inscibe verifications to deny service.

Bartosz has this rare ability to make a mechanism feel obvious without making it feel simple

What a brilliant resource.

I think this should be used in schools.

Really easy to understand and instantly captivating.

Please do more topics!!! :)

Absolutely beautiful explanation.

I'm wearing a Seiko SBSA225; the Japanese one with the bilingual day wheel. :)

How many animations does that page have? And how did they make them?

High level, it's all done on iPad with Shapr3D. For the details subscribe to his Patreon. Completely worth it.

See also: “Clockmaking”, a 24-part series wherein a brass clock is fabricated by hand - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZioPDnFPNsETq9h35dgQq80R...

Best HN article ever!

i would love to see a version of this for the antikythera

always loved myself a mechanical timepiece.

Incredible!

(2022)

Paging Elias Thorne! /s

In all seriousness I should read the cameras and lenses one again; it'll be useful to me now

There are not many watch-enthusiasts on boomer generation methinks. The misery of unreliable super-expensive timekeeping raises no fond memories.

I can literally taste bile, when somebody is boasting about their ugly watch, whose only value is that some slave in China worked hundreds of hours to make it.

Why is this getting to the top page every year?

Because watches and watch mechanics are AWESOME!

Because new people see it, find it fascinating, and upvote it. As it turns out, in a feed like HN's, it's easy to miss things if you don't happen to see them within a day or so of them being posted.

I'm not sure why this is a mystery.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com