The rest is the messy middle around which negotiation is required for any form of minimal co-existence.
[1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2025/07/israel-opt-is...
According to wikipedia, there have been 80K people killed in Gaza, 80% are civilians, 30% are children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war
> it is a very weird way from Israel's point of view to make what you call genocide.
It's not me who calls that a genocide. That's becoming the consensus on how it's being called outside of Israel.
This is why we should just move on to EVs and stop getting involved at all in the Middle East. I see no morally right way of engaging with either side. Both positions seem to end in “let one side genocide the other side.”
Netanyahu is a hack, a war monger, all sorts of bad, but Palestinians continued support for Hamas and seeing large scale cross border kidnapping/murder as a “police issue”, it’s hard for me to feel sympathy.
So I bought an EV and that’s the end of it.
The most likely best future is when Western support is predicated on making decent concessions to the Palestinians. I'm not in the position to say what they are at the moment but more autonomy for the Palestinian state proposed in Oslo would be a good start.
Have you ever stopped to think _why_ they might continue to support Hamas? The Israeli government (and many citizens) continue to take their land. Force them out of their homes. Treat them worse than animals. They can kill 70k people and face almost zero consequences internationally. They've got the backing of a superpower. If you were treated like that I'm sure you would plead for calm, peace, and love. If people are treated inhumanly on mass scale they will revolt because they feel like they have no other option.
People in the Westbank seem to mostly support Fatah, not Hamas.
I do generally agree though that the strength of Hamas was fueled by the dire situation of the population in Gaza and Israel's actions (before Oct 2023).
That must not mean that one should stand by the side of mass murderers. You can be against Israel's actions and for the Palestine people and still condemn Hamas' actions, and every sane person should.
They came into power and murdered their own people to consolidate their power. They are a terror organization. It's disturbing to me that many (not meaning you in particular) fail to understand that.
The problem is that this is so ambiguous it took me a minute to work out who you meant. The mass murderers you're referring to have murdered many fewer people than the other side. They have done some heinous things but they're only a 'terror organisation' because their crimes aren't sanctioned by a state. A state which has also reportedly done many heinous things. My point being, if Israel were not so supported by the West I think we would look at both sides of this conflict with disgust.
For the people in the southern levante to live in peace, Hamas must be overcome as well as Netanjahu and his clique.
That is a you problem, but the first step to improvement is acknowledgement, so kudos. An improved ability for sympathy is encouraged.
But I understand that Israeli soldiers need justification to shoot at children and raise houses- just as Germans needed justification for their genocide.
I have read some poll results from years ago and don't have deeper knowledge of the topic, just saying one would be to provide real evidence.
And that's only talking about Gaza. Since you said "Palestine" it should be mentioned that Hamas had not been able to dominate in the Westbank so far, so I don't think what you wrote is accurate.
Don’t get me wrong, Israel is not the good guy here, and Hamas is just taking advantage of their short fuse. Both sides are insane, which is why I think it’s better for us to just sit it out, the only thing we can do is make it worse.
How many Jews would be allowed to live in the southern levante if Hamas could choose?
So yes, there has always been a difference in capability and in intend. Under the criminal Netanjahu and the current extremist Government the difference has started to blur, though and Oct 7 worked as a catalyst. It feels like Hamas' mass murdering and kidnapping was a full success regarding their goals.
Wait, you mean the same Hamas that Israel knowingly funded, the same one Netanyahu bragged about funding?
[0]
"For years Netanyah propped up Hamas. Now it has blown up in our face."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...
[1]
"Netanyahu admits funding Hamas with $35m monthly Qatari cash."
https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/netanyahu-admits-funding-h...
It is the same reasoning Americans used for their war against the Apaches.