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Comment by kjshsh123 | Hacker News Reader

Labor is not a market distortion and average wages not following average productivity is not evidence that it is. In a competitive market, wages should follow marginal productivity.

Probably what happened is America was in an increasing returns to scale part of its production function. Now it's in the diminishing returns to scale portion. If I had to guess why, it would be due to growth boundaries of cities and lack of new cities. There's no new Manhattans. Instead Manhattan has just gotten more and more expensive to live in.

Anyway, if F(Population) is the production function, then wages should be F'(Population) and total wages should be Population.F'(Population).

F(Population)-Population.F'(Population) is total production minus total wages and is known as economic rent.

The right thing to do would be to tax economic rent. Use a tax on land value and natural resources to fund UBI.

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That's true, I think the real problem is a liiiiittle more nuanced than just the great stagnation. But that's the graph people know. The issue can be read out in more detail from other graphs too, I'm working on an updated piece. I mention georgism at the end of the piece as well.

But do you agree with the theoretical framing? People not being able to not work forces them to find something. It's like an iron ore deposit being forced to be mined rather than being mined when it's needed?

I don't really. It smells to me like the lump of labor fallacy. Labor participation results from supply and demand and it going down does not necessarily indicate less demand, but can also indicate less supply. That's what you'd expect as countries and the world become wealthier. Leisure is a normal good.

That's fair, they seem similar at first glance.

The difference is that we are asking the economy to create jobs even when it doesn't "want" to. It still will, the lump of labor fallacy is indeed a fallacy, but that doesn't mean this isn't causing a lot of harm.

We aren't draining the earth's oceans (yet) because its supply is more than the earth needs right now. One day we might, but how much we draw is decided by the economy.

But for labor supply is forced, capital flows there when it shouldn't, politics chases it. The economy, ever adaptable, provides jobs where it can.

I have a better response now.

The ability to take leisure is still conditioned on labor. To take time off, you have to save up. To save up, you have to work. Labor is distorting the real value of leisure if the production of that leisure needs less labor (leisure time still requires you to be fed, housed, and more if you go on holiday, travel, or consume to keep yourself entertained or educated).

That's not a distortion, that's just what the choice is.

When a new gaming console comes out and someone works extra shifts to afford it sooner, that's not a distortion.

I think your mistake, based on how you're talking about the "real value of leisure" is thinking there is a single value of x. That's labor theory of value era thinking. There is only marginal utility and marginal rates of substitution.

Trading leisure for consumption via labor is the choice, not a distortion.

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