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Comment by everdrive | Hacker News Reader

And people will keep carrying their phones with them. And keep using them. And keep installing apps. Yes, ideally we'd have laws against government infringement, but the capability to not use your phone is in your hands.

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More and more things require having a smartphone. Scan this QR code to install the app to cross the border. Install the app to use the street parking in this city. Install the app to board the bus. Install the app to get your filing status with department xyz. I admire your spirit of rebellion, but avoiding using a smartphone in daily life in most places will result in a lifestyle contorted specifically to avoid using a smartphone, and will cut you off from activities that were previously doable without smartphones 20 years ago.

This is not meant as an argument or a counterpoint, I'm just not familiar with some of your examples. Would you be able to elaborate?

>Scan this QR code to install the app to cross the border.

Would this be a national border? I haven't traveled internationally for a while, but this would be quite troubling.

>Install the app to board the bus.

Is there no option to pay without an app?

>Install the app to get your filing status with department xyz.

Surely the government also allows you to just call and get an update?

I was required to install an app in order to enter and leave the Philippines. To my knowledge there was no other way to get the required approvals.

My local system is completely cashless. You can pay by phone, credit card tap or with a reloadable transit card. To my knowledge, the only way to reload the card is to use their app or travel to a handful of authorized agents to have them reload your card.

I can call my government office and wait on hold for an hour, ultimately probably needing to schedule an appointment in person to handle my issue or I can install an app and have my issue resolved in a few minutes. Which option do you think most people choose?

>I was required to install an app in order to enter and leave the Philippines

That's good to know. Me and my family will definitely never be visting the philippines. My phone doesn't have mobile data enabled at the provider level. Would have been an award search for Wifi.

>My local system is completely cashless. You can pay by phone,

It's baffling to me that anyone would want to link payment to their phone. This is one of the least intelligent self-owns of the last decade.

>or I can install an app and have my issue resolved in a few minutes. Which option do you think most people choose?

I take your point but I'd say that most people don't put much value on their freedom if they'd trade it for a couple of hours of convenience.

> Surely the government also allows you to just call and get an update?

Government offices in many developed countries don't realistically answer the phone any more. You either use the official app on your phone, or you log into the official website using strong authentication that requires a phone. A luddite workaround might be a registered letter by post, but you might wait a long time for an answer.

> Would this be a national border? I haven't traveled internationally for a while, but this would be quite troubling.

Yes.

> Is there no option to pay without an app?

No option.

> Surely the government also allows you to just call and get an update?

The time I saw this, the non-app option was waiting in line for several hours.

Could you expand on this? What happens at the national border? What happens if your phone just won't do a QR code? I'm not arguing with you or disagreeing with, I'm just curious what the process is.

This comment is so divorced from reality. It is very difficult to live life in the modern world without a phone unless you want to go Amish.

Not really. Rural America you don't need a mobile phone. I can go days without ever touching my phone. And if it wasn't for my bank, I wouldn't need it at all. Even then I could just go to the bank but I'm too lazy to do that.

I'm with you. On my list of things to do is seek out a a local credit union so I'm not reliant on a banking app.

Even in NYC you could get by pretty much just fine without a phone (a credit or debit card is pretty much required though). The hardest part would be losing contact since expectations of how people organize and meet up are completely mobile phone centric, and plans are almost expected to be modified in real time.

The "I can't bank" complaint is strange to me. I've never done any banking on my phone, the closest is when paypal extorted a phone number out of me for SMS verification. I still do banking through web browser at home, for several different accounts. But maybe it's different outside of the US.

Yes when you are away from society you don't require a device to connect with society.

I'm not Amish, but if I walk into a restaurant where they won't show me a menu without scanning a QR code, I walk right out.

I’m with you there, I probably would too.

But when your child is late to school but they won’t allow you in until you scan the QR code and fill in a form? Do you stand and wait hoping to be noticed? Hoping to tailgate somebody with a phone? Just head home?

The school also sends general communications only by app.

That should be brought up to the school board and parents should be up in arms about it. I don't see how it's even acceptable to require you to do paperwork every time you kid is late to school. If on the day I couldn't get a human at a school to talk to me and a phone call to the office didn't work either I absolutely would go home. People let others get away with this way too often. Sometimes you can't fight it (good luck fighting parking meters in your city that require an app once contracts are signed and the infrastructure is in place), but often you can demand reasonable accommodation if not a change of policy.

Just think about your comment if we ever see for-real 1940s-style fascism at the same time we have all these stupid tracking devices on us all the time. If we made it through to better times people have no idea how so many people could have so easily and freely given up their privacy and freedom. With no fight whatsoever. Giving it up gladly. Hoping even more freedom could be taken from them so they could be just a little bit more comfortable.

I've been thinking about it as an experiment lately. Not fully throwing my smartphone in the bin, but considering leaving it at home for a day.

If I had my physical credit card with me I think it would largely be viable, the main issue would be if I had to meet up with friends it would be incredibly difficult without being able to contact them. Public wifi these days has almost vanished so it's difficult to connect to the internet without cellular access now.

>If I had my physical credit card with me I think it would largely be viable, the main issue would be if I had to meet up with friends it would be incredibly difficult without being able to contact them.

I left prime running a bunch of 80s comedy films in the background as I cleaned my house on the weekend. And so much of the "situation" end of sitcom relies on people having prearranged things beforehand and just happening to arrive on time.

A couple of SMS's and every situation would be resolved.

I could get by on just an SMS/Call only device, the problem is these days everyone moved to internet based apps which require an android/ios app. In theory you could use some kind of bridge server to convert it in to a simple text protocol for a dumb device, but I'm always worried you'd get flagged as a bot and have your account deleted.

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