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Comment by ouk | Hacker News Reader

This initiative is a trap. Essentially, it would allow for the termination of bilateral agreements with Europe. This is what the SVP has been trying to do for decades, and this initiative provides them with a convenient excuse. And it’s particularly ironic because the SVP has always opposed legislation promoting sustainability.

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> This initiative is a trap. Essentially, it would allow for the termination of bilateral agreements with Europe

Or their preëmptive re-negotiation.

I’m not sure describing it as a trap is fair. Nobody voting on is confused about what the thresholds require. I’m not thrilled at how close they both are. But the fundamental idea of a maximum sustainable population for an Alpine republic isn’t abhorrent to me.

is the idea of economic destruction akin to what the UK has suffered abhorrent to you? In your excitement about the one you might consider the other.

> the idea of economic destruction akin to what the UK has suffered abhorrent to you?

Yes. But I don’t think Brexit is comparable to what is being proposed here.

In Brexit, the UK invoked Article 50. In this case, the EU would have to execute its Guillotine clause. That dramatically changes the framework for and thus possibility of renegotiations.

There’s not going to be negotiations to drop the core principles, I don’t know why bunch of people keep imagining this. UK was let go, Switzerland will be let go too.

Hoping different outcome by negotiation over this is like hoping for negotiating your way out of your gym membership payment when still attending. Not going to happen unless you become a charity case or insignificant, being significant is not a strength its a weakness when you are looking for charity or special treatment. Switzerland can imagine being too important to loose just as UK thought and they will be let go as UK.

I guess leaving EU can be useful to those who want to do things to Switzerland just like they did things to UK.

How exactly are the Swiss in any position that would mean economic destruction?

They are in a position of having no seas and only EU on every side, which means things are getting more bureaucratic the more EU-Swiss relationship sours. Think border checks on the ground and flight restrictions in the air and the less than 10M rich people in the mountains can now trade only among themselves.

Why would the EU be so irrationally butt hurt about it? It seems easy enough to let the Swiss have their policy and both continue to benefit

Edit: EU can void all the other contracts, but why would it want to? Why do they care so much about how many immigrants Switzerland has?

Swiss can have their policy, who said they can't have it? It's just that they can't make EU have the Swiss policy. If Switzerland wants to be a 3rd party country, they can do that and negotiate visa regime, import/export controls etc with EU like everyone else who is not part of EU or don't have a deal. They can be like UK or Turkey for example, or be have entirely different relationship.

Swiss can never be like the UK or Turkey if it reneges on the deal it has now. The other two have leverage, Swiss do not.

It’s up to the Swiss to decide regardless, if population limit is more important than being integrated into Europe they can do that. What they can’t do is to have equal access to the single market like the other EU countries without the obligation that other countries have.

It’s up to the Swiss to decide as much as it was up to the Melians.

> And it’s particularly ironic because the SVP has always opposed legislation promoting sustainability.

I was just telling someone this today! Very business-friendly party, with the exception of immigration policy, ofc.

I must wonder though who could profit from Switzerland leaving Schengen. Okay pass checks are only a little hassle, but visas can become bigger, and judicial cooperation on international crime just drops. And yes, no more cross-border workers either way.

>I must wonder though who could profit from Switzerland leaving Schengen.

Same types of people who profited from Brexit.

> And yes, no more cross-border workers either way.

Well, that will be a problem especially for Swiss industry. Tons of workers from neighboring Italy, France, Germany and Austria work in Switzerland, commuting each day. They do this because workers are paid better in Switzerland than in neighboring countries. If those workers aren't available anymore, Swiss production of all kinds of stuff will take a huge hit.

For the same reason of wage differences, not a lot of Swiss people cross the border for work, and all neighbors are larger (except of course Liechtenstein, but that's a very special case anyways). So for those neighboring countries, it isn't that much of a problem.

Too many people confuse Schengen and EU freedom of movement. Ireland isn't in Schengen, but any EU citizen is allowed to enter the country, find work and reside...

Convenient how? Even if you take the spin at face value, it’s downright dystopian.

Meanwhile SVP head politicians employ quite a few foreign workers at all levels of employment hierarchy.

It's pathetic.

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