They try so hard to do a polished presentation that everything is kinda fake and unauthentic. I don't understand how this attitude survived so many years.
It is so long, with so many unnecessary sentences. And it feels like everything is said at least twice; First a generic statement about the new feature. Then a specific example, or a deeper explanation of what the first generic statement was. Then a demo. And then a conclusion to the future.
The old Steve Jobs keynotes focused on the most interesting things, but now it feels like they are afraid not to include everything. So everything gets diluted.
It would help a lot if they would stop saying the same lines:"And now...", "We cannot wait for you to try our new XXXX ... ", or "We could not be more excited to...", "We are excited to... ".
"With that, now over to person-X"
If everything is fabulous and great and you’re always excited or proud, that becomes the baseline.
At least to my British ears, Americans rarely sound authentic.
Its always grandiose statements and elaborate smiles.
See these old videos, where people talk in a straightforward way:
Car transmission https://youtu.be/JOLtS4VUcvQ
How to dial your phone https://youtu.be/PuYPOC-gCGA
The dial comes to town https://youtu.be/p45T7U5oi9Q
Now go watch that Apple video again and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
This is the type of people that sent us to the Moon. No non-sense engineers.
"I may be wrong", but perhaps 'Americans rarely sound authentic' to you simply because you're just more familiar with your own culture's idiosyncrasies?
Anyway, I love the Brits; no flame intended. I come in peace! :-)
"But, I've never done that. I'm pretty much always positive about things people present. I even said some of them weren't bad"
Yeah, high praise comes in subtle flavours if you're a Brit.
Americans generally say what they mean a bit more, so I think their mid point is just different.
Any native knows that "Interesting, but perhaps we should reconsider" means "You're an idiot and I don't understand how you ever learned to breathe."
The pinnacle is "Not bad", which can mean either deep approval or blistering contempt, depending on tone of voice.
It drives foreigners insane. But of course it's not our fault if they never learned English.
It’s like ‘American corporate’ is a totally different language that I don’t speak. The words sound the same, but that’s about it.
1. e.g. lots of smiling, use of superlatives like "great"/"amazing" to describe mediocre items/effort/results
If I share it with a Polish or German friend and he says it's "not bad" then I know he is really impressed.
One of the main reasons that killed my desire to move to the US was the amount of fake questions during - on a paper - friendly discussions, when the point of those questions was just, and only just, visibility. An average American non corporate discussion is worse than a non-American corporate one. And that seems to be pretty global to me.
My brother and my sister-in-law watched “Somebody feeds Phil”, and we watched together the Sydney episode and after that some others, because I’d just announced that I’d move to Australia soon. That Sydney episode had quite normal discussions for us, Europeans. Of course, people had agenda, but they still reacted to what response they got. Even if things were cut, most times people seemed to react to something else from before. Then the next episode was from Las Vegas. And it had full with questions where nobody responded to the answers, nobody cared what the response was. And they kept those in the episode. There was a point when Phil asked the people in a line one-by-one what they work. And they basically just listed it, Phil had zero responses to any answers. Zero reactions from anybody. The point wasn’t to engage with the answers or the people. There was another case, when a girl talked about her shop. There wasn’t a single sentence which was organically connected to another. Phil and the girl had different agenda and they had to perform based on those, no matter what. And I was enough now there to say that that happens way more frequently than elsewhere. The next one was from Manila. And there were organic discussions again. I’ve never seen that clearly this phenomenon which bugs me. Of course, the usual scripting which happens with these shows, even helped to make this more announced. Probably, the people talking in that episode were way less interesting, but still as a visual to what annoys me is quite good.
Of course, I had good conversations also over there, and I had bad ones elsewhere in this sense. Heck, I did similar things before, but maybe this is the exact reason why I’m so sensitive to this, because it annoyed me greatly when I did it. But on average, it was the worse over the pond. Especially on the extremities. But even in day-to-day discussions. It was annoying that I have to peal down an additional layer with anybody to get real answers, which is not needed basically anywhere else.
Execs are ‘super excited’ about everything. There is no dynamic range at all. They appear to have no opinions and no judgement because their opinion is always that everything is awesome. When the audience knows that stuff is either normal-level ok or actually fucked up, this message is insulting to receive.
Worse, it trains people downstream that shiny happy is the only valid comms. Hard to escalate a concern when you don’t know how to start the message with how super excited you are about it.
It drove me crazy during my corporate period.
If everything is at a “10” in linguistic intensity (“Incredible”, “Legendary”, “GOAT”) then nothing is exceptional.
It’s the linguistic equivalent of a Dorito chip.
I’m American and this marketing/corporate speak drives me up the wall. I have a harder time respecting the judgement of people who thoughtlessly speak this way.
I think they mean well. But it feels weird.
Small talk is all lies. Almost all praise is fake. And it all drives me insane. I can fit in at work just fine, I can appear joyful and excited to come to work, I have 30 years of practice with it. But I avoid it whenever possible because it is all lies.
Americans appear to oversell everything because people get mad if you don’t.
“Why can’t you just be positive?!”
Because I’m not going to lie. I can’t fake praise, and I won’t even try. Being positive while lying is immediately obvious and it undermines the positive attitude that you’ve painted on. If anything, I take a negative message when I see someone faking a positive manner of speech.
But "almost all praise is fake" and "small talk is all lies" feels like a pretty depressing place to end up?
Why do you feel like that's the case? How do you differentiate sincere praise from "fake" praise?
No, not really. I just see it as a tool that normal people use to keep themselves happy. And that's not depressing, to me. It's kind of ... annoying that people are so fragile that they have to do that in order to have a "normal" day, but I can't fault anyone for doing things that make them happy. I wasn't given that opportunity; I was weird and if I didn't conform then I got in trouble. Yet normal people LOSE THEIR FLIPPING MINDS when asked to consider my behaviors normal and to consider my various physical movements as normal and tolerable. You have never seen such orchestrated and immediate pushback in your life, I promise. But I was forced to do what they refuse to do, which is to accommodate the other side. So, if anything, I'm angry about it all. Not depressed.
I don't need those platitudes to feel happy or normal, I need to be alone to feel happy, most of the time.
Praise given in private is usually legitimate. I value that. I feel that. Praise given in front of others (like ceremonies and ritual award reception stuff) are the fakest fake activity known to humanity. The ceremonies are for normal people. People like me can simply be privately told "well done" and given a piece of paper that they can look at, and maybe a raise, and that's enough. And maybe a mention during the ceremony that I will not be attending so that people know about it, if they're interested.
And to an outside ear, it does just come across as completely fake.
Jobs' "reality distortion field" was just the conviction in his voice as he spoke. There is no, none, nada, zero conviction in the way Apple deliver these missives. It reeks of corporate America and is therefore not trustworthy.
I'm also kind of surprised that no-one there has altered the format. There are a lot of smart people at Apple...
Even outside presentations, "awesome", "super-awesome", etc. were far more prevalent than one might expect within the reality I lived in, though.
This came across as part lip service, part cheeky “this should be the parent’s job, not the state”.
Even then it could have been 15% of the time with literally the same info.
If you didn’t notice it before, you’ll definitely notice it now.
I can understand how it might seem culty, but it's in the service of clear communication to a global audience. Anyone who represents a company to important customers and/or the public goes through similar media training.
The comment is about how everyone in their videos does it. The over-use of it is the issue, like when you say a word too much and your brain stops understanding what it means.
A few of the keynote people kinda forgot how to walk normally on camera. It happens to me.
Once in a while you get something like the M series chips, but the rest is reliably mid - functional, maybe a few nice tweaks, probably some better-than-average design, but nothing revolutionary.
So all of the "We know you're gonna love it!" doesn't land, because it's literally scripted and rehearsed, not spontaneous.
Jobs was rehearsed and passionate, which was part of the appeal.
It's debatable if Cook has ever been genuinely excited about anything.
But I can't recall him ever using a computer. I cannot, in my mind's eye, conjure an image of him sitting in front of a Mac and using it, whereas fuzzy black and white images of Jobs' messy-like-mine home office with a Power Mac G5 shaped external hard drive on his desk next to a 30" Cinema Display are trivial to remember. Like, when was the last time we saw him organically using any of the products the company sells?
Maybe it's just because he doesn't have the rizz, so I've just never seen the pictures, but he just feels like a dude who never goes into the Settings app and tweaks anything.
> imitate Steve
I’ve been to a few official Apple Developer events. What I’ve noticed is that they all have the same presentation style, to the point that it feels almost cult-like.
What is Apple but Lumon with a less mysterious CEO and a rounder HQ?
Just watch a normal presentation like Mac OS X 10.2 or 10.3, it's not iPhone level earth shattering but he made it fun.
Sure, but I think it’s also b/c the target audience for these keynotes has shifted. Given their immense market cap, now there’s an increased fiduciary responsibility to control how presentation lands, such as earnings reports, which comes at the expense of the fun.
If my ship ever really comes in and docks at the harbor I’m going to remember to keep my wallet full of cash, so I can stop and get that strawberry ice cream cone without worrying about the long term consequences, which are all I would have left.
Would be a welcome change it if the incoming CEO went back to live on stage imho
- Steve Jobs, Macworld 1997 (telling photographers to stop hitting him with a camera flash every half second)
According to what I was told by some FANNG people (I've never worked for them myself) some employees were/are were sent to public speaking classes after being hired specifically to teach socially awkward programmers how to talk on stage, and this is what they teach them, weird hand movements and all.
For example the part about cameras, where they seem to advertise them not as security products but as a lifestyle aid.
The rehearsed marketing is so strong that it comes across in a very perverse way.
Apple is as much an aspirational lifestyle company as they are anything else. That's been their marketing aim for quite a while. It's less about the tech and more of a message of "This is the person/lifestyle you can be if you buy our products"
Ok, maybe it’s not that interesting on reflection, and how are they even supposed to advertise it, with burglars?
I think Apple can't find their voice since Steve Jobs passed/stopped doing the presentations. Thats why it feels inauthentic. I imagine its also hard to really feel "best (iphone|ipad|macos|etc) yet" when they are debuting features that existed elsewhere for a while. Its just a massive disconnect from anyone but fans. The same could be said for innovative features, whats left to innovate on smart phones?
In some ways both things are like having to be the person coming on after an amazing presentation or comic or musical act. How do you follow it?
Hate him or love him; he knew that was the single largest stage for Apple and put the effort into each one. The keynotes today are like Apple overall, a fantastic organization that is starting to drift toward.. fake.
Many of us don't want to watch people fumble with presentation problems. We don't want the lead in, setup, filler banter, so on.
I'll take this sort of "you spend your time perfecting your presentation instead of wasting thousands/millions of people's time doing it live"
Like the root post whining that it's too polished. Christ. Get a grip and go touch grass if this is the sort of pathetic nonsense someone actually takes the time to whine about.
It's actually funny how every single presentation like this always gets topped by profoundly boring people complaining about some aspect of the presentation: The people aren't standing right or moving the way you want. OMG look at his jacket. That joke wasn't funny. Etc. Christ.
Yes, most people just want the information, not some sort of organic, "all-natural" presentation.
A presentation is a live audio visual medium. If you just want the information as facts with no affect why not read the stats later?
I enjoy the presenters and the enthusiasm and nuance that they bring to the presentation. I do not need to see someone figure out how to switch a display or change a slide or fumble with wireless that is overwhelmed in a hall with a thousand wireless devices or... All of that is utterly unnecessary, so pre-recording it, doing all of the post production, reshooting so you don't trip people up on misreads / mispronunciations / fumbles / technical issues, etc, gets the human + the information without the ancillary bullshit.
It's actually funny because I don't stream Google or nvidia presentations for this same reason (I just wait for engadget or someone to just give the bullet list recap), and I suspect many/most of the people whining and gnashing about this one being "too produced" don't either. Somehow it always ends up being 80% in the weeds nonsense.
I didn't feign to comment about presentation style until someone's complaint sat atop the entire thread. As always it gets sidetracked into meta and arrogantly held personal preferences. Could it be HN otherwise?
So I say I like it and why. To, in again classic HN style, to be met by someone declaring that no, nobody on the entire planet likes it.
Upset? LOL, no, I guarantee you nothing on this shakes fists at clouds site upsets me. Humours me? Sure.
Now they completely control the narrative.
But I have only rarely heard anyone who liking the new-style presentations. It all seems fake with the same woolly business talk (everything is an 'experience' now, 'app experiences', etc.).
I certainly long back for the days where anything could happen, Jobs would work to convince the audience and Bertrand Serlet would come on and troll Microsoft.
Currently streaming the presentation, but it has mostly gone to the background as it's so insanely boring.
I feel like I'm about to tell you there is no Santa or something, but did you really not know that Apple always stuffed audiences with Apple employees? Of the remainder it both through intentional and natural selection leaned towards sycophants. Did you really think the roaring response were organic feedback?
It was always controlled. Personally I'm happy to be done with the on-cue tumultuous cheering and whooping.
>But I have only rarely heard anyone who liking the new-style presentations
Well I have only rarely heard anyone who liked the slow, plodding old-style presentation. So...
But yes, HN is overwhelming filled with angry, shakes-fist-at-clouds "it ain't like the olden days!" sorts now. So if you really think this place represents the norm...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeqPrUmVz-o
(Aside from clearly not an Apple employee, Jobs' way of taking the question is brilliant. Yes I know this was probably not the keynote, but it's a big, risky, filmed WWDC event.)
But yes, HN is overwhelming filled with angry, shakes-fist-at-clouds "it ain't like the olden days!" sorts now. So if you really think this place represents the norm...
Yes, let's resort to personal attacks. There are a lot of things that are better now. Apple Keynotes are not one of them.
If that's your evidence to rebut me, lol.
>Yes, let's resort to personal attacks
You took that as a personal attack? That is incredibly weird. It was a general observation about the sort of perspectives that top HN, but not in the general world, or even general technology. You don't have to believe it.
Like seriously, currently the top post to a discussion about Apple unveiling an array of software improvements is some guy whining and bitching about the presentation, whining that it isn't like the olden days.
While I agree with you, I think even the controlled audience mattered.
The audience, even if they were largely Apple employees + journalists, did not know what was gonna be revealed. And there weren’t literal cue cards.
So you would never see the audience boo, but there were several situations where the Apple presenters expected cheering but got polite clapping instead, or cheering which was very evidently just the sycophantic employees (or the team that worked on something).
When something was truly exciting, the cheering reflected that in a way it didn’t when the announcement wasn’t.
Two very different examples of this were the Snow Leopard reveal, where the excitement could be felt throughout the presentation, culminating with the $29 price, and the iPhone reveal with the 3 devices in 1 gimmick.
Wait...they still don't do that?
Every one of the dozen or so speaker changes during that presentation involved a snippet of some jaunty bland corpo-pop song and some swoopy animation. Filler banter? They had a flying fucking VW Bus!
I'll take some sweaty nerd walking out on stage to applause and tripping on their shoelaces over that every day (except the Bus bit that was actually pretty well made)
that second dose of soma had raised a quite impenetrable wall between the actual universe and their minds.
- Brave New World, Aldous HuxleyBut then, I'm a fan of Apple, overall, and I like most of what they do.
The bits that are fine: removing distractions from photos, extensions to the edges, fixing color/exposure etc.
In the past Apple has been pretty good at anticipating and responding to shifting cultural dynamics. I wonder if they'll recognize and adjust?
The siloed utopian landscape is the point. Apple tries to sell a modern, clean lifestyle status symbol. They are selling products for the person you hope you become, not the person you are right now. "Buy an iPhone, and this is what your life could look like."
Same deal as fad diets and gym memberships, its the illusion of being able to buy your way into a lifestyle without doing the hard work. Apple is selling an identity.
Apple has often in the past positioned itself as an aspirational product for those who aim to be tasteful, talented, beautiful and wealthy.
The risk of becoming too disconnected from reality is that the typical person may stop aspiring to the sort of rich-person reality Apple presents. Think of how many of the symbols of wealth of prior generations, like fine tableware, were rejected by younger generations.