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tombot

I really don’t know why there isn’t a brand that’s capitalising on this.

Messaging, calls, maps, notes but no way to take or view images. Marketed simply from a global brand.

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There are many brands that have tried the "phone that does less" angle. They haven't been very successful.

Because of the ostracization problem. Kids are ruthless, and failure to conform is swiftly punished.

Images are also a huge part of messaging. For memes obviously, but also other communication (here’s the flyer for the event, look what the teacher wrote on my exam, should I get this gift for mom, look what my significant other sent me — what do you think I should say?), etc.

> Because of the ostracization problem. Kids are ruthless, and failure to conform is swiftly punished.

Shocker, but those are probably not the people you are going to give a shit about after you leave school.

Shocker, but a lot of psychological damage can be done before you leave school. Do children really not have value, except as far as they become adults?

> Do children really not have value, except as far as they become adults?

Of course they do, which is why any sane (imo) parent wouldn't let their child on social media to begin with. Basically feeding your child's developing brain into the dopamine farm, along with the "it's on the internet forever" tax.

Social media is a cancer, not some bizare tool for their social or economic wellbeing or general happiness.

While I agree that the most popular social media systems have been engineered to be extremely harmful, and something I would seek to protect the children under my care from, this is unrelated to the comment I was responding to. "This won't feel important when you're an adult" is a really bad argument.

Two of mine have come to adulthood in the past 7 years. They're fine. Didn't turn purple or become social outcasts.

I knew so many kids that got into selling cigarettes, alcohol, or weed because their parents did not want to buy them things that would facilitate social integration. Most optimistically, if you don't give a kid a smart phone then they're going to mow lawns or something and get one and hide it; that scenario isn't really a bad one.

Parents need to weigh potential otracization against the cost of giving a smart device, which could be as high as ending their normal childhood development.

Personally I think no phones until 16 is a good rule.

Easier to say. Your child will just despise you for willingly making their school life hell.

I'm living it. They don't despise me, yet. My youngest just spent a rainy afternoon reading books, drawing pictures, and is now breaking out a boardgame, the horror! Hopefully they grow up well adjusted and come to appreciate the sacrifice.

Cell phone and social media addictions arn't inevitabilities they are choices.

I really hope it goes well! I’m in favour of smartphone bans, but I can see how it sucks when you’re the only one without access to it. I was a teenager once after all.

That being said, I can’t imagine myself drawing pictures, or playing boardgames every day with my friends when I was 13. Wouldn’t be happy if my parents didn’t let me play WoW/AoM with my friends. Obviously everyone is different, and I’m in no place to say you’re doing it wrong. Just trying to say how it would suck if I couldn’t do something that all my peers are allowed to do.

This all is the main reason why I support nation-wide social media bans. Would solve the issue if no kids were allowed.

I went through high school until almost 16 with no phone whatsoever. Twas fine. I remember peers around me for the most part had smartphones at the start of high school, maybe even some in middle school? I don't want to say exactly when this was for privacy, but I don't see why phoneless school living could be so disastrous. But then, I am a bit of an oddball and introvert.

I also grew up without a smartphone, but “stuff that kids talk about” happens online now. Wasn’t the case even 10-15 years ago, since you could still be part of conversations without a phone.

But yeah, I support the school-wide smarthphone bans. Not uncommon in Tokyo.

Parents need to weigh the potential bad effects of social media against the cost of otracization, which could be as high as ending their normal childhood development.

Social development is very critical during school-age years.

Do you think kids are developing socially whilst on their phones?

Most kids today go through their developmental years while using smartphones, yes. Is that quality of development affected by it? Probably also yes. Are children harmed when their parents force them into out-groups among their peers during their developmental years? Unquestionably yes.

There are other groups: scouts, football, dance, crafts, etc. Actually doing stuff in the world does not require a phone. Kids learn by doing stuff.

In general around this topic, there is a lot of post hoc rationalisation about choices already made. I've actually got a family member approaching her 30s who has spent the last 2 decades mostly staring at a screen, and has nothing to show for it. So for me the choice is easy, maybe less so for my kids.

16 is steep, at 14 I was going around by bus a lot, having google maps to track when, what and where the bus is stopping would have made an enormous difference (this is a big city, changing route due to delays is possible). I wish I had it. (I had a normal phone, smartphones didn't exist yet)

I was navigating a big city and the surrounding countryside at the age of 12 before the internet was a thing. Apps and phones are not necessary for exploration.

Your peers when you were 12 probably also didn't use transportation that required a smartphone app.

I did not say it's necessary, but it's a HUGE improvement to moving with transit. You cannot change at the last minute unless you know all the bus routes, which you can do with a map app.

It makes an enormous difference for transit.

Knowing when the bus is arriving allows you to decide to walk. Not every places has buses that arrive on time. In Rome a bus can be late by 40 minutes, in which case walking is an option, especially if you are young.

there is, pretty much every single smartphone brand offers parental controls

nobody stops you from limiting your kid to bunch of whitelisted apps, for instance whatsapp (it has parental controls as well), duolingo, wikipedia, phone, SMS, calculator, maps, flashlight, sudoku, chess, camera

not exactly sure why you wanna ban cameras

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