Hacker News Reader

Journey over destination.

The thing is to enjoy the process, not focus on the desired outcome.

> Perhaps I need to make peace with the fact that some dreams are worth fighting for until the bitter end, never knowing if they’re achievable or not

Most of the time, the dream changes as you chase it. Going on the journey changes you, and your perspective gets better and more detailed, and the original dream fades and new dreams arise. And often, those dreams are perfectly achievable, because you've got the knowledge and perspective to know what's a good dream to have.

I will agree with this ... to a point. An endless journey, often fraught with physical and/or emotional pain, without any kind of satisfying destination, would be completely miserable.

The point is that you have to enjoy what you're doing. If the journey is completely miserable, fraught with physical and/or emotional pain, then just stop. Go do something else that you actually enjoy.

God, give me grace to accept with serenity

the things that cannot be changed,

courage to change the things

which should be changed,

and the wisdom to distinguish

the one from the other.

- Reinhold Niebuhr's Serenity prayer

As much as the serenity prayer comes across as some tacky shit you'd find painted on a wall in that one handwriting font in a beach house in Florida... it's the greatest distillation of human wisdom I've ever found.

I've been in therapy many years, and you wouldn't believe how often it comes up and we discuss it in the context of some problem in my life. So much of life's difficulties hinge on the axis of trying to figure out where we can place our agency and where we should.

If you like this I highly recommend you read Marcus Aurelius’s Meditations if you haven’t

An easy read that dives into stoicism, a similar mindset, within the context of running the Roman Empire.

Great read.

Exactly; powerlessness is a big source of stress / anxiety / etc, but when you truly accept that you can't for example change other people or things outside of yourself will never be exactly the way you want them to be, then you'll be a lot more at peace.

To phrase it negatively, it's a kind of selfishness / indifference. But it's not "I don't care", but more "it is what it is".

The difficult part is to also be careful as to not become one of those YouTube "stoics" who just stay in "I don't care" state for everything. We can't control other people, but we can try to influence them towards a better path if needed.

I see some people accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, but then have no courage to change the things which should be changed because they have no wisdom to distinguish the one from the other.

Spinoza has a much deeper and more effective approach to this, I found.

The two people I knew who really liked the serenity prayer (and wanted everybody to notice) were assholes. It can mean something like "See, I struggle every day with important issues concerning my power, and, I'm wise about it too! Also I consulted God, turns out you have to put up with some things," which makes it into an excuse for being really controlling.

My preferred version: do what you can, don't sweat it.

Might as well post the full version, which adds context:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time.

Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace.

Taking, as he did, the sinful world as it is, not as I would have it.

Trusting that he will make all things right if I surrender to His will; that I may be reasonably happy in this life, and supremely happy with Him forever.

—Reinhold Niebuhr, 1892-1971

Hm. I think Proust put it well:

Desire makes everything blossom and flourish. Possession makes everything wither and fade.

I’m a lucky son of a gun. Managed to slap the eject button on the treadmill early enough in life that I found myself in my early 30s with all the time in the world, and enough cash that it certainly felt like it.

I went and lived so many dreams. Did a whole bunch of things I had already, in my decade long hermitage of empire building, decided would likely never happen.

It’s a decade later. There isn’t an experience or a thing, short of holidaying on the moon, that I haven’t fulfilled.

It’s terrible. It turns out that wanting something, striving for it, was an awful lot more fun than having it. Great; I’ve caught the mailman - now what?

I’ve ended up retreating, wanting less and less - I now live in a cabin in the woods, not because it’s what I want, per se, but because it’s satisfying in ways that my “dreams” aren't.

It’s odd. I do find myself wondering if this is something internal to us, or if it’s acculturated - that is, are we taught to be tantalus, to dangle a reward just beyond our own grasp so that we might justify striving - or are we born with it, the hunter anticipating fresh meat tonight?

Me, I’ve learned to instead derive satisfaction from the absolutely mundane, because the extraordinary wasn’t really any better.

Anyway. These are hardly new problems. Epicurus mused on what dreams were worth having - which grew a person, which diminished them. Aristotle would say happiness is not a state of attainment or possession but one of activity, of working towards a goal. Diogenes would say “mate, all you need in life is a barrel”, and he’d be right.

I suppose my takeaway from all of it can be summed up as “Do not let imagined futures supersede contact with the present.”

Sound like it’s time for yoga :) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=txNkzlJ0tc4

> Great; I’ve caught the mailman - now what?

Let him go so you can chase again. Give all the money away; or burn it if you’d rather. If you don’t want to do that because having unlimited cash does satisfy you, then make that a deliberate choice each day so you can remember why you like the life you’ve chosen.

I had a mild version of that, and it allowed to focus on the parts of my work that I love without constantly worrying about productivity or monetisation. I could get more involved in the community and do fun things just for the sake of it.

Travel got old quickly. Consumable experiences in general did too. Making art, coding, and working with others did not.

Your story reminded me of a quote I found many years ago.

It is only possible to succeed at second-rate pursuits -- like becoming a millionaire or a prime minister, winning a war, seducing beautiful women, flying through the stratosphere, or landing on the moon. First-rate pursuits -- involving, as they must, trying to understand what life is about and trying to convey that understanding -- inevitably result in a sense of failure. A Napoleon, a Churchill, or a Roosevelt can feel himself to be successful, but never a Socrates, a Pascal, or a Blake. Understanding is forever unattainable. Therein lies the inevitability of failure in embarking upon its quest, which is none the less the only one worthy of serious attention. --Malcom Muggeridge

Hmm, interesting perspective. So there is actually something deeper (on top of other already deep stuff) in having, and more importantly raising kids.

Since they take away so much freedom (if they don't one ain't doing parenting right, thats for sure... or simply doesn't have to work at all), its the little bits of passion that are hard won that I appreciate so much. They very effectively throttle any non-kid activity, 24/7. That weekly climbing evening with a buddy is a highlight of any week it happens. That rare hike or skitour that I manage to pull off during weekend becomes a very fond memory. Those 2 weeks spent solo backpacking in Indonesia or recently Dominican republic is something etched deep in my soul.

Before kids, I did all this every weekend, remote trips 4x a year. I was in heaven, but it became the new, even if ultra cool, norm. Now with kids, and after pretty bad paragliding accident that left me on wheelchair for a bit, anything I can still do, I want to dance with joy. I know intimately how it feels losing all that, maybe forever.

One thing that can break this circle IMHO - passions. Climbing is one for me, nature/mountains are generally another. I can keep doing climbing all the time, novelty doesn't wear off. Maybe it can again become a new norm, but what a norm it would be. But maybe that's just idea of a dad with 2 small kids and way more dreams than life can still deliver. Maybe that slow dripping makes it actually better, I'll never know.

I'm not very materialistic and i have saved heaps, so never in financial trouble.

What I'm always looking for is love, even though I have a loving family, wife and kid. Its always been like that. I almost constantly want to connect with people, as if anyone should be a backup or shoulder to cry on, should I fall. I can't afford to anyone not liking me.

I dream of being with that lady, she makes me feel good when she's around, but my mind knows she cannot fulfill this always present desire for love or close connection. It will certainly not be a good idea to break what I already have, even hardship alone. I don't know her well and i probably never will. So i keep on musing about her, probably as long as I will regularly see her passing by. We will keep on smiling at each other and talk gently about our struggles in life. I can't help it, it's who I am.

So what a lot of people feel around money, posessions, status, early retirement, nice vacations, a trained body... I have around love and connection and it will probably never resolve. I believe I'm coming to terms with it.

We are in the same boat. Wouldn't say I made it or got enough cash. But we are able to choose what we want to do. Turns out living a bit more simple / free is a big part of that. Living in a small forrest, closest neighbor is 10m walking, sleeping outside when we can, doing sideprojects involving energy / waterworks / woodworking. At the moment and making the house mouseproof.

For myself I still want things, but I contain myself more? I dont want to have to travel to see a tourist attractor. Or search for connections that are far away. Just see what is here already and work with that. No need to grasp so much.

I’m curious why you say you know some of those things will never happen. It’s certainly possible that if you’re extremely tall you probably won’t fit comfortably in some sports cars. And there are some medical conditions that preclude any kind of participation in martial arts.

But barring those, is it possible you don’t know those things but are instead conceding them?

Nope, it’s a definite never for those ones I listed for a combination of the very reasons you specified. Medical reasons and/or basic physics of height.

Has a doctor restricted you from doing martial arts specifically?

I ask because there are certainly lighter martial arts programs out there that even folks with medical and/or mental issues can still do and gain benefit from them.

Yes. It’s the contact aspect that’s problematic, and all the widely-available training I’ve found in my life thus far has been contact-oriented: self-defense, belt/rank progression, sparring requirements, etc.

Honestly if I lived closer to the city I’d probably go looking for a Tai Chi group. That’s about as close as I can get.

Also considering fencing when I lose more weight/am not the world’s largest target. There’s options, but they deviate pretty heavily from the road I’ve been on in life thus far to the point I’ve only recently had them become plausible.

Does "athlete" in your original post have to be only martial art/contact sports? For example, are you medically unable to do absolutely any strength exercises, maybe upper body only, with appropriate support/isolation? A lot of times it's a matter or re framing rather than giving up goals, a lot can be done at home with a pair of adjustable dumbbells.

Karate traditionally has 3 components, Kihon, Kata, and Kumite ... I would try going to some more traditional Karate Dojo and asking if you can practice with them without sparring. Most of the class isn't sparring anyways and if the others spar then you can just practice your Kata or Kihon while they do that. While sparring is important it's possibly the least important component in many traditional schools.

Whether or not you'll be able to progress in belts/ranks is different but who cares. Wearing a white belt forever is probably better for character development. If your goal is the belt just go to the store and buy a belt.

There's also archery and I'm sure there are many other options for no-contact martial arts training. If fencing works for you then there's also Kendo. There's Iai-do which is just about drawing the sword. Lots of options in theory.

Yet another option is to wear some sort of body armor during sparring. There are suits you can wear that protect you from pretty much any human form of attack. We use them for some self defense training.

Just a gentle reminder: This point of view is sometimes applicable and valuable, but it is extremely easy to say, and statistically it is almost always an oversimplification.

Jeremy Clarkson is a really tall guy.

Jeremy Clarkson in a F1 car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOh77dwAr54. There's a reason they had hammond try that.

I could barely get in or out of the original tesla roadster. I had to go out on my hands. Was fun to drive. My feet just didn't make it out the door sills sideways. Same thing for the back of a jeep cherokee in the late 90s.

I'm 6'2" and have size 13 feet. I'm not making my shoulder, hips, or feet smaller without a hammer.

Don’t give up on all of them. My friend here is 6’5 and a pro strongman at the time https://70sbig.com/blog/2013/10/mike-interviews-pro-strongma...

> I'm 6'2" and have size 13 feet. I'm not making my shoulder, hips, or feet smaller without a hammer.

Eyy, same! My wake-up moment was trying to fold myself into an Impreza WRX and realizing most fun sports cars are not made for tall people.

I'm 6'4" and to fit in a Fiat X19 I needed a can opener and Mazola.

I think this gets at an important distinction: some dreams are painful because they are impossible and some are painful because they are unresolved

I competed at a professional level in motorsports and had a lot of momentum in my 20s. It felt as though I was headed to the top of the sport, but it came to an abrupt end from a rare medical condition. I struggled for several years to come to terms with not knowing what could of been and probably had some minor depression because of it. It took a lot of self reflection and time to realize that I was extremely lucky to experience what I had, and I had so much to be happy about in the present.

That being said, there is a Limitless episode with Chris Hemsworth that might resonate with you, especially regarding martial arts. Watch season 1, episode 6, called "Acceptance". I had never watched any other episode of this show, but late one night when the whole house was asleep I was browsing and came across this episode and thought "hmm, looks like a good bedtime show". Ended up watching it and you'd have thought someone was cutting a thousand onions in my house. In fact, our Golden Retriever turned into a service dog that night hah!

Lean into medicine, tech and science? Zepbound + strength training is a life transforming miracle and they are coming up with even more effective drugs and modern AI deep research (think coding agent pouring over mountains of data) is amazing at coming up with an investment plan to eventually own a home, for example putting up a downpayment and running a rental in a really cheap area and then eventually using income to finance something more convenient if you are not willing to move.

My point is not that all problems can be solved, but I think what OP is saying is that life is a matter of focus. I am putting plans of a soaring corporate career on ice not because I am 100% sure I couldn't swing it but because trying to would take focus away from things I want more like lifting heavy weights and tinkering with tech at home. But for absolute top priorities, I don't think it's ever worth giving up on the concept. Hard limits can be handled by reframing what success looks like and path to get there, not giving up on the essence.

> I know I’ll never be able to take martial arts; I have made peace with that

What do you mean? From the rest of your comment it seems you're saying this because you're fat? There are lots of fat fighters in professional MMA. So imagine if they had said that?

Once upon a time, I thought I could leverage my weight into attempting wrestling. My Doctor reiterated the same warning I’d gotten for karate, for boxing, for judo, for every martial art I’d ever wanted to try and take prior: one errant hit, and your damaged organ would need a transplant.

It’s just way too risky. That being said, I do think I’d like to find an instructor to help me focus on solo practice without having to go through the usual progression ladders/belts/rankings. For the meditation and body improvement, at the very least.

If you really want to, you can probably find a BJJ instructor to do privates and only 'flow' spar with them. When I spar with women for example, I match their strength and intensity. Depending on the organ/medical condition it may still not be worth it though. Good luck!

I can connect with it as someone who has been trimming down his dreams, one dream at a time, one bit at a time, for so long that it hurts now and feels suffocating at times. The worst are the still lingering around, flickering once in a while.

The article is a bit off base IMHO. That guy could go snowboarding, he just thinks the warning he got creates a risk that isn't worth it. It sounds to me he hasn't even thought much about risk mitigation, or alternatives, etc. So really he's talking about letting go of a non serious fantasy that he has. 'Dream' is a bit of a wishy washy term... you could call that fantasy a dream, but you could also call things you are really determined to achieve a dream also. As long as something is possible, then its potentially achievable. Sometimes you have to go down paths where things only "might" be possible before really knowing if it is actually achievable. If things are important to you, go down "might be possible" paths unless the pursuit of that is detrimental in other significant ways.

With respect, the author said his doctor told him not to. I am certain that the author and their medical professional know a hell of a lot more about what's a good idea for his body than you or I do.

When you are young and healthy, it feels like your body has no real hard limits, and doesn't define the boundary of what is and what isn't possible. But at some point, through age or misfortune, you will learn that, no, sometimes your body tells you "no" and you must listen.

A doctor knows about enough dangers and germs to never let you out the door!

There are amputees that do snowboarding with specially designed prosthesis and boards, so there is certainly a way to take load off weak knees with appropriate gear. OP is just, quite reasonably, not prioritizing this minor dream enough to invest so much time and money in it at the expense of other priorities.

I don't think you understood the point. If it really is your "dream" you adapt, as someone else pointed out, there's people without knees who snowboard.... there's a bunch of things you can do. But quite clearly, he hadn't even started on that journey, he didn't even know if he would have enjoyed it. it was a fantasy. Trust me, I get it, I have bad knees, but during my 40s my fantasy was to do parkour, and I did, I just adapted and got pretty good at it, now in my 50s, I don't do parkour anymore, but have a bunch of other problems and I still work out how to do the things I want.

There is a difference between coming up with some way to adapt your dreams to the limits of your body versus what your initial comment which was simply "That guy could go snowboarding, he just thinks the warning he got creates a risk that isn't worth it."

I think people are entitled to decide the contours and priorities of their own dreams. If snowboarding was the author's main goal in life and "snowboarding" for him was a loosely-defined enough dream to still feel satisfied by whatever accommodations his knees forced upon him, then, yes, he could probably still reach it. But not all dreams are created equal and we don't have infinite agency. We have to pick our battles and the author may feel that while this is a dream, it's not an important enough one to go through all of the risks or other accommodations needed to get there.

Or perhaps his dream is to snowboard in a certain way, and have a certain kind of experience that simply won't work with his knees the way they are. I saw a video once of a guy carrying his brother who had cerebral palsy through a race. It had always been the brother's dream to race and since his disability prevented it, that was how they accomplished it. I am absolutely thrilled that both brothers were able to have an experience that feels so meaningful to them.

But, for me, if my dream were to run a race, being carried wouldn't feel like accomplishing that dream. Maybe another dream, equally worthwhile. But if it's not my feet pounding the pavement, that's not my dream. Perhaps the author's dream is similarly inflexible.

Either way, after someone writes an article about learning how to accept the limitations that life places on it, it seems rude to me to just tell him he didn't want it bad enough.

thing is, he didn't accept the limitations, he categorically cut off his "Dream". The whole point is, if you are going to super rigid about the criteria of your "dream" then you are likely going to be defeated by all kinds of hurdles. You need to adapt. If at the first hurdle you give up, then likely it's just a whimsical fantasy, not something you seriously wanted in your life. To me, it's not rude. It is ok to give up on things like that if it's not really seriously what you want. Which is essentially what he is saying. I'm saying not to confuse it with the dreams that the commenter above is saying, things that he seriously wants to be part of his life. Not whimsical fantasy. For that, pursue it, adapt, change, find solutions, don't be rigid. Hence the problem with the term "Dream"

I don't think the "is he physically capable or not" question is really relevant to the point the author is trying to make.

The point is that you only have so much time, and you will never do all the things you want to do, and learning to deal with that fact is an important thing you have to do.

Compared to the vast amount of things you will be able to do, the ones that are hard limited is a tiny portion.

Feels good growing up a skinny gamer.

I fit into M. And "fun cars"

(I dont drive)

(Im a virgin)

Both of those can be fixed with a minimal amount of daily work.

Same with being overweight

instead of making peace what about reexamine where the orignal desire for being an amazing athlete came from