Hacker News Reader

Hacker News

Comment by cactacea | Hacker News Reader

Full thread

cactacea

> In the early 2020s Texas was luring in remote workers

And not a single one of the people I know that moved there want to still live there. ymmv I guess

View on HN

people move to Texas thinking it has low taxes. It doesn't. Washington state has a much lower tax burden.

For a normal earner, California has a lower tax burden than Texas. It is surprisingly insanely high tax.

Of course California also has a much larger safety net than Texas. So for most working people it's a no brainer as to which state is better

Then why are so many people moving to Texas?

Because it's cheaper, partially because yes taxes are lower but also because it's just cheaper. The weather makes Texas less desirable than California, and it's almost as if they tax based on that.

A lot end up moving back and are upset they don't get their prop13 savings. California becomes cheaper the longer you live in it. Texas doesn't

As someone who lives in California and pays state taxes, how would Texas have a higher tax burden if it doesn't charge state tax?

Texas charges quite high property taxes compared to many other states

True, but in my experience grandparent is a bit full of it. Yes property taxes are higher, but what op leaves out is that the values of homes are like for like 2-3x more expensive in California. So in the end I would probably pay around the same tax for a like for like home in California as Texas, simply because of the value of the home. Then we must consider the state income tax of California, which is a nonzero differential to that of Texas’ state income tax

My understanding is that property taxes in Texas can also grow a LOT year over year if your town gets more popular, which isn't the case in California

Yes people in Texas have to move a ton because as property prices go up so do their taxes. With California, you control how much income you earn. In Texas, people moving to your neighborhood can price you out even after you've bought .

A move for a family can cost thousands. Since the higher moving rate is due to the tax system these costs ought to be counted.

“A ton” is carrying a lot of unverified weight here. Do you have demonstrable evidence that move rates are higher in Texas AND that it’s a result of this AND that people hit this with an actual interesting frequency?

My experience supervising employees in CA and Texas. It's also just an inconvenience on businesses. I'd be giving my Texas employees grace time off all the time to move. My opinion. Sucks to not be able to live in your home

Indeed, but circa 2019 the max taxable amount that the value of the home can rise any given year is capped in Texas. So if you are in that situation yes eventually the taxes will “catch up” and you will pay more every year, but that catch up is capped every year and you know what it is capped to and can plan for it

That’s what the homestead exemption is for.

IIRC only New Jersey and/or Connecticutt have higher property tax rates. I know that Tennessee's are about a quarter of Texas'.

What is high tax in Texas, much less insanely high? There is no income tax. Property taxes are okay-ish. It has a standard sales tax.

> Of course California also has a much larger safety net than Texas.

California alone accounts for a third of the homeless population in the U.S.

How many homeless people in California are actually from the state? Cause it seems like within CA, they move to big cities. Democrats then say that high-valued real estate is causing homelessness, and Republicans blame lack of law enforcement, but I don't see how it's either of those.

Almost none are from out of state. 90% were living in California when they became homeless, and 65% were born in California. It doesn't even make sense as to why a homeless person would voluntarily move to California where literally everything, including food, is more expensive and housing is impossible. Plus, homeless people lack the means to easily move around. California's housing situation is the worst in the country. It even has the lowest percentage of homes actually owned by homeowners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_California

https://calmatters.org/housing/homelessness/2024/07/californ...

Not disputing any of the statistics cited, but there is one advantage of being homeless in California compared to other places: favorable weather, especially along the coast. Snow is a once-in-a-generation event outside high-elevation areas, and while it does freeze on some winter nights, it’s rarely below 30 F. There are many parts of the country where temperatures sometimes get low enough to be life-threatening for those with inadequate shelter, heating, and clothing. The coastal areas of California also typically don’t get too hot. Heat is more of an issue inland, particularly the Central Valley and the desert.

This. It’s simply much easier to be homeless in California, one of the easiest places imaginable. Do people think if the state was red that suddenly all those homeless people would become homed? A ridiculous notion.

It's immaterial when the data says they were in California to begin with.

Texas has high property taxes. This causes people to need to move. It also spurs construction causing prices of homes to stay flat. For the typical homeowner, the total combined appreciation of your home in CA combined with the savings from the no moving property tax once you've been there a while more than covers the California tax burden.

My colleagues and direct reports in Texas constantly have to move as their property appreciates. This alone results in excess cost that is essentially a tax on not being rich.

Lots of states have high property taxes. Texas does not have "insane" tax that's more than California. Everything is cheaper, like gas, food, real estate, etc., in Texas than it is in California, and so California has that additional tax.

> This alone results in excess cost that is essentially a tax on not being rich.

That's everywhere in the U.S. right now. Texas is not an outlier.

Even when you look at those rankings that take property tax into consideration, CA is way higher than TX. And the people who see a dime from the CA safety net aren't the ones paying property tax.

Don't take into account the higher appreciation in California .

I disagree about the safety net. I was a high earning California resident (mid six) and when I was laid off, I got my unemployment and my kids got free Medicaid that ended up paying out quite a bit. The safety net is pretty nice.

Since that payout from insurance, my total tax burden in California was actually negative. Had I been in a state like Texas I would have paid less in tax but more overall.

Property taxes are relatively high in Texas but houses are so much cheaper. Also, the cost of living in Texas is far lower than in CA. From an economic perspective, living in Texas is a no brainer.

Houses are cheaper because there is no appreciation.

Ca appreciation is high and the appreciation more than covers the tax though

California has 10% income tax vs 0 in Texas. Austin property tax is 2% vs Palo Alto at 1.4%.

Salary of $150k in Austin requires $282k in San Francisco to be equivalent. Source: https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/austin-tx/san-fran...

To make sure that wasn't an anomaly or misrepresentative, I also checked https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator for Austin vs San Jose and got similar numbers: $150k in Austin requires $288k in San Jose.

You can argue that the Bay Area wins on weather, politics, startup ecosystem or whatever, but comparing taxes or cost of living is not where California wins.

Oddly enough, I don't know too many people who moved to Austin, but they're all still there AFAIK.

Please let the zillions of people still fogging into my hometown (an Austin suburb) know!

Reply on news.ycombinator.com