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Comment by voiceofchoice | Hacker News Reader

I encourage anyone surprised that people would opt out of babies and raising kids actually spend time with kids.

Not just like for the holidays and pass them back when they start crying, but an actual extended period of time dealing with all the issues that they bring.

You've got to be a special kind of idealistic romantic to still see the appeal afterwards. Which is great for you of course if you do. But there's a reason authoritarians across the world are banning abortion and targeting birth control.

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> there's a reason authoritarians across the world are banning abortion and targeting birth control

I don’t think that’s because of birth rate decline. While authoritarians give lip service to that occasionally, it’s never their primary cited reason (which is usually some combo of religion, purported return to “traditional” prosperity via reduced promiscuity, aggression against feminist political opponents, etc). Also, most authoritarians aren’t that long-term in their goals.

Extended period? How about 5 years? 15? 25?

There is literally nothing in the world that compares to the joy of having a large, loving, family that you helped create. The day-by-day crying or trivial complaints that you are so short-sighted about simply don't matter.

I encourage you to talk to some happy families.

Basic statistics, common sense and dire poverty would dictate that there will be a sizable number of unhappy families.

If you're surrounded by only happy families then you're privileged.

I've seen families where husbands come home drunk and best the wives (in 2026)

You are in the family you help create. It is not just thrust upon you. The existence of despair need not discourage others to thrive.

I think you're too idealistic (or of right wing ideology). The culture aka parents inlaws and random aubties and uncles pressurize Indian couples to have 1 kid then 2nd kid then 3rd kid

But neither of them come to help these days with childcare. Just for the photos and for lolz

Very few couples have kids of their own violitin

Not to mention some religious sects/cultures who look down upon contraceptives due to religious beliefs

So yeah, loads of parents become parents by accident and not by their own choice. (Not saying everyone is like this but a large number is like this)

That’s assuming no disease, mental illness, unforeseen events, injuries, forced poverty, unexpected deaths, etc. A great deal of family dynamics is outside of a person’s full control.

That's also neglecting the fact that Indian boomers are very nosy and the culture pressures adults to have kids but gives 0 support. Neither culture nor religion or the govt does anything to help.

> culture pressures adults to have kids but gives 0 support.

Really 0 support ? I know many grandparents who entirely took care of their grandkids for 2–3 years. So their kids can work.

Mind you, Not by living in the same city and helping. But taking care of grandkids in their own village / town.

You clearly have no idea of culture nor religion of the country.

I suppose you're one of them right wingers who live in an alternate reality

The thread in which you are commenting is about Indias crashing TFR

Urban India TFR is 1.6

Which means people aren't having kids. Gee if all grandparents are helping them why is TFR 1.6 hahaha

> I suppose you're one of them right wingers who live in an alternate reality

I suppose you are one of the left wingers who don't know how country used to be before 2014 ?

I am too from the same country. Extrapolating your experience to 1.4 billion people of different languages and cultures is not a sign of intelligent person.

> Gee if all grandparents are helping them why is TFR 1.6 hahaha

Weird that in previous edit you listed out all the supposed problems and then again edited and blamed 1.6 TFR solely on grand parents not supporting.

Looks like you are clutching at straws to justify your point.

Do you have anything to contribute to the conversation other than trolling or anecdotal examples?

This is not reddit. Please refrain from trolling and have a fact based conversation

You are commenting on a thread where TFR has seena surprise bust. I would have stated examples of Western democracies which provide clean air, good jobs, good public infra that Indian govt is unable to provide and yet their TFR is also going down.

But the difference is, India suddenly had a TFR collapse. Not a gradual one like Japan. That's why Economist published an article and that's why you are commenting on it.

Every other country has seen a gradual decline except India that saw a crash

So I suppose 2 or 3 people whose grandparents support them (as per you) are having 2 kids while others have 1 or 0

Anecdotal evidence isn't much of an evidence because the country is 125 crore people. You are disproving your own point but you can't see that

> Do you have anything to contribute to the conversation other than trolling or anecdotal examples?

Wasn't your initial claim itself anecdotal evidence ?

> Please refrain from trolling and have a fact based conversation

And what exactly is "I suppose you're one of them right wingers who live in an alternate reality" ? Is that good faith argumentation ? I was thinking you would want me to give it back in kind.

None of what you said is fact based.

> So I suppose 2 or 3 people whose grandparents support them (as per you) are having 2 kids while others have 1 or 0

It is staggering to me that you lack basic reading comprehension skills. Do I have to spoon-feed you what I am disagreeing with ?

Your initial claim: "Neither culture nor religion or the govt does anything to help." Is apparently fact based because ?

From your previous comment: "Gee if all grandparents are helping them why is TFR 1.6 hahaha"

Did I say ALL grandparents support their kids ? Do you lack BASIC comprehension skills ? Why are you arguing a straw man ?

My pushback was on: "Neither culture nor religion or the govt does anything to help.".

And I have told you I know plenty of grandparents who support their kids. I didn't say EVERY grandparent supports their kids. I didn't say this is common across all of India.

But YOU said "Neither culture nor religion or the govt does anything to help." It was YOU who generalized all of India.

You couldn't just take the L.

> This is not reddit. Please refrain from trolling and have a fact based conversation

Ok give me what facts you used to arrive at some of the claims you used in your other comments.

> Very few couples have kids of their own violitin.

Really ?

> culture pressures adults to have kids but gives 0 support

I agree that culture pressures adults. Which facts did you use to conclude that it gives 0 support ?

well, my "anecdotal" evidence is backed by the fact that Urban India's TFR has crashed to 1.6

The fact that TFR has crashed suddenly that blindsided everyone should be a hint about how supportive governments/society/religion is.

If you still can't understand it, doesn't matter

The TFR will keep crashing even if you or I or anyone else believes it or not

> The fact that TFR has crashed suddenly that blindsided everyone should be a hint about how supportive governments/society/religion is.

Isn't TFR dropping in urban areas common across the world ?

Do you know of any government or culture that reversed this ?

It is weird that you keep putting the blame on "governments/society/religion" when decreasing TFR is common phenomenon across the (urban) world.

EDIT: I want to make it a bit more clear since you have some trouble understanding nuance.

You can't say culture gives 0 support, and it is backend by 1.6 TFR. Hence, proved.

TFR dropping in common phenomenon across the world. It involves plenty of variables. You can't make up a claim and justify that by showing declining TFR.

we have AI tools that have ingested worlds data

Please ask any AI tool about how TFR crash of India is different from TFR reduction in the western world. I refuse to engage with your pointless conversation anymore. Tata

> "Ask AI. Tata"

Just take the L and move on dude.

Being unable to fix someone's education in a HN thread is a Loss. Taking the loss and moving on

we have AI tools that have ingested worlds data

Please ask any AI tool about how you are wrong. Tata /s

Every time I actually login to social media, I meet someone like you who reminds me why I logged out the last time

Thanks. I needed this.

1. Couldn't back up the claims he made

2. Tells me Ask AI without even showing what it tells. (FYI I asked it didn't remotely support your case)

3. Gets hurt when called out

4. Leaves

I suggest you to go left and login to Reddit. You will find a lot of like-minded people there.

I opened this after a few days and for a minute there, I had to double check if this indeed was Reddit (given the absolute lack of self awareness in the comment)

Same can be said about your comments.

It's embarrassing that still couldn't backup your claims or keep your word. LOL

Did the drunk wife-beaters intend to be that way?

Complete opposite experience for me. I wish I'd had kids sooner- I was too influenced by popular negativity about kids: the expenses, the loss of freedom, etc.

Most of that is bullshit. Having kids has made literally every aspect of my life more fun.

there are several comments here contradicting you directly and talking about how kids are a great experience.

I mean yeah, the human experience is vast and varied, I'll grant you that.

As long as people get to make the best choice for themselves that's really what matters.

There's lots of people who would choose not to expose ourselves to the risks and liabilities because we don't see the rewards as worth it.

Your body go through a lot of hormonal changes when it's your own kids, of course it does not work as well with other random kids...

But of course people on this forum believe we're basically machines and that machines are interchangeable, they're so far in the techno bubble they forget we're just some kind of complex apes

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