Why Can't California Count?
natesilver.net
natesilver.net
I have lived in both. IMO, the universal mail-in ballot is great in many ways, and please don't forget that the current regime of 2020 election deniers equates "voter fraud" with "We disagree with the results".
Two paradigms apply to the cult:
1. Every accusation is a confession.
2. An entire group is defined by a designated outlier. (Think "Willie Horton")
But technical issues of very late vote count are above my pay level to diagnose and fix, even to what extent any fixing is worthwhile. Think Pareto Principle. You want to fix the 20% of causes that lead to 80% of the problem. Both neglect and perfectionism are common enemies.
Catering to propagandist’s lies is hardly productive or useful; you’ll just sink to greater and greater lows trying in vain to win them over, to the detriment of society.
Denial is top of the list of cult traits. Also, projection.
These two are blatantly obvious, and the cult members don't see it because it's always THE OTHER GUY'S fault. Everything is. Fascist playbook reads the same almost verbatim.
Cults are very closed systems, and "breaking out is hard to do".
The problem is that the US election system is a fundamentally flawed system, and with pre-existing distrust those "facts and data" might as well be equivalent to a "trust me bro".
My country had a similar voting trutherism cult. They sent goons to a whole bunch of polling stations to "prevent it from being stolen". They observed the whole process - as is everyone's right - and reported the counting results back live to the mothership. The outcome? Exactly the same numbers as the official count.
They got to observe everything and saw nothing weird, and with the way the elections are set up there was zero possibility of missing any kind of fraud. All arguments were trivially countered by a "But your buddy was right there, why didn't he say anything?".
The voting fraud cult died because there was no room left for lies. Properly-secured elections are fundamentally incapable of being stolen. They aren't secure because you can't find evidence of fraud, but because fraud is impossible.
MAGA says that the budget would be 100% balanced if illegal immigrants stopped getting government benefits. This is so obviously wrong based on information plainly available to everybody. There is nothing you can do to stop this.
While you're at it: you should probably also get rid of the whole structure of first-past-the-post and winner-takes-all systems. The fact that it is even possible to get full power over a country with just 23% of the vote is just embarrassing.
We also had some recounts in the US, and they found the same results as the original election… but that didn’t stop the conspiracism, either. Because it is impervious to reality.
Vote in person. Vote with ID. You solve 99% of the problems. If it works in the rest of the civilized world it can work in California too.
The excuses for not doing this seem terribly weak, and only fuel the ideas of conspiracy theorists.
> and both the densely populated and the sparsely populated areas have unique problems to solve.
What are the unique problems to solve ? And I mean unique compared to the rest of the world where those issue are actually a non-issue.
Many of the flaws are self-imposed. The requirement for ballots to merely be postmarked by election day is insane. If my credit card bill is due on June 5, it's due on the 5th, not postmarked by. I will pay penalties if it arrives past that date.
If you have the privilege of voting by mail then be an adult and mail it promptly so it arrives by election day when all ballots should be counted. Ballots arriving after should be summarily rejected.
California also allows same-day registration, another insane innovation ripe for irregularities.
A compromise would be vote-from-home but dropoff-in-person (where ID is checked). I would argue most states allow ample time for early voting, sometimes weeks ahead of time, allowing just about anybody to fit it into their schedule to vote in person. The arguments for default vote by mail (barring some verified hardship) simply don't hold up enough to offset the potential negatives.
It's for the same reason most insurance policies have a waiting period. To prevent the most low-hanging fruit of fraud.
I've actually seen this happen in big cities where they have same-day popup registration tents in the middle of skid row, signing up random homeless people who don't even have stable addresses. No verification, nothing, we'll worry about that later here take a ballot. I'm sure everything was on the up-and-up there.
And, no, I’m not going to “trust me, I’ve seen it before. [I just have no evidence.”
How are they supposed to get whatever form of ID you think they should present in order to vote?
California does count ballots slowly, but it has for decades, why is it such a big issue, all of a sudden? California does lots of things slowly, is this the one we should focus on?
Disenfranchisement - the inability to participate in our most sacred institution - shouldn't be based on the variation of mail delivery speeds. It encourages all the wrong incentives. Responsibility rhetoric makes people feel good, but rule clarity is more important that the good feels. We picked a clear deadline - postmark. It prioritizes participation. No one should be disenfranchised because we want fast election results.
They mail them a month ahead of time.
Developing countries where people struggle with food and sanitation have this figured out and California rightfully deserves to be mocked by them.
Voting is for adults and we don't need to cripple the system to cater to people so irresponsible they can't drop a piece of paper in a box on time. If that's too hard you don't deserve to vote or there is something more nefarious at play.
Do you leave your servers wide open with all ports exposed? Do you ask "prove to me we've been owned before" when you're told to put a firewall in place?
I wouldn't want to disenfranchise people sending ICMP traffic my way.
> Do you leave your servers wide open with all ports exposed? Do you ask "prove to me we've been owned before" when you're told to put a firewall in place?
The equivalent in this situation would be that you're freaking out about there being tons of "hackers" currently in the servers despite the firewall already being in place, but refuse to prove it and instead insult people and throw out barely-veiled political jabs.
Stop trying to push a disenfranchisement position. It will never be acceptable. Maybe get therapy to deal with the feelings your have about needing quick tabulations? Solving your feelings through disenfranchisement is externalizing whatever inner demons you're fighting.
If your ballot shows up a year later does it deserve to be counted? No, it doesn't.
You seem to be taking the position of the end of Trading Places, screaming "turn those machines back on!"
You set a deadline. Everything past the deadline is discarded. California allows for an 8-day buffer, which is artificial.
Lobby to mail the ballots 8 days earlier if that would make you happy.
What do you reckon your credit card bill (private obligation, governed by contract law) has to do with your ballot (civil right, governed by constitution)? I have to return my rental car on a certain day and my milk expires on a certain day, but I wouldn’t think to compare either to a mail-in ballot.
That would be “insane,” to use your preferred terminology.