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Comment by bondarchuk | Hacker News Reader

>People who want to ban ads will usually give the alternative of a reviewed directory of products and services for each category.

I don't know about this. The idea that it should be centrally reviewed and managed is somewhat of a strawman as far as I'm concerned. Once you outlaw third-party advertising you would naturally expect such directories to spring up (much like specialized business publications that are actually full of high-value ads that genuinely serve a purpose for people in the business) but they could operate just like normal businesses with in the capitalist system and would have to compete for quality and customers.

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How will the directories get their names out and compete if they're not allowed to promote themselves?

If you remove approved commercial options for promoting yourself, like advertisements, then most of the other options left for promotion are essentially spam.

If your answer is word of mouth, that's naïve. I've worked with over 100 startups at very various stages of marketing in the last 15 years. Word of mouth is fire in a pan. It is very industry dependent, context dependent, and company dependent.

I don't know man. I just think somehow we'll manage. For example if a group of friends all feel a desperate need to find out about new products they could start a non-profit organization that will search out the new products and directories detective style. And public business directories exist in most places because they are required by law.

The deeper point is that pro-advertising people always frame it like advertising is something people want and that benefits them, but this is just a fig-leaf for the underlying ideology that businesses have the fundamental right to buy peoples' attention for money. The directories idea is mostly just a way to call this bluff, essentially saying "if people wanted to be advertised to they'd go out of their way to get it". Then the underlying ideology comes out.

It's not that businesses have a fundamental right to buy people's attention. It's that people have a right to sell ad space that they own to other people to show messages on if they want to. I dont think its right to tell (example fake website) plumbersupport.com that they cant accept $500 from a plumbing saas product to put a banner ad on their site because advertising is bad.

This kind of situation is win-win-win.

The plumbing website makes money from the ad - supporting their operations so plumbers can keep a good source of plumbing educational content.

The SaaS company gets to put their product in front of users to look at and consider buying.

The users get to see a potential product with no obligation that they may have not ever heard of before.

So basically you're saying businesses have a right to sell peoples' attention. Of course for every seller there's a buyer but I do kinda see that how this framing would make a difference, ethically, for some.

basically agreed with some minor quibbles. Just want to say I enormously enjoyed this respectful discussion with you.

Likewise, appreciate it.

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