Comment by boodleboodle | Hacker News Reader

Comment by boodleboodle | Hacker News Reader

I kinda disagree with the general sentiment of the article. IMO the author mistakes a low context social style for imperial tastelessness. I, a Korean, lived in the US for a decade so I do have experience with this "imperialism" the author tries to illustrate.

However, the American behavior the author is describing is more attributed to how American social norms don't force anyone to "read the room" and "know your place". At least, not as much as Italians and Koreans. Americans have simple rules they abide by, like general etiquette and the constitution. And Americans are brought up to neither refrain from nor judge others acting within that boundary.

So I don't agree Americans are "tasteless". I find Americans to be more tolerant and accepting, at least compared to cultures with longer history. And that is the American "taste" in my opinion. This has its cons, one of which is someone from my culture thinking they are oblivious to others around them.

Failure to read the room might explain why the tourists persist in the questioning beyond politeness, but not why they embarked on the quest to interrogate the worker to begin with.

My family does this and I can barely go anywhere with them for the embarrassment. Everything is an interrogation. They actually take delight in the waiter not knowing the answer to where the seafood was caught, and then lecturing them about the importance of knowing such things (this is the most common one they pull). That's not just failing to read the room.

> the waiter not knowing the answer to where the seafood was caught

It depends where they ask. An Eastern European waiter would probably answer "in the sea" to that, although the correct and mundane answer would probably be "the supermarket freezer". Relay that to your folks the next time they ask. Most fish that you order in restaurants is probably farmed, except for small school fish and big ocean fish. So unless they eat sardines, ocean caught tuna or sabre fish, the supermarket freezer or the fish market if you are lucky is probably a good answer. Of course, the Greek might tell you that their grandfather caught the fish that very morning and even show you his foul smelling fishing boat.

I feel like in countries which are mostly ethnostates, there is a tension around remnants of tradition and the business world trying to open up the culture to gain some new market opportunities (Unsure how to state this more neutrally). I think this tension is interesting and I think that in the U.S it feels like the market systematically has the upper hand.

I am not sure this holds scrutiny so I'd love to read a counter

I agree with you. Fundamentally, this is an article about the effects of market capitalism. Everything can be converted from cultural terms into economic terms.

As an Italian, I feel the exact same.

This guy just doesn't know how to seriously talk about imperialism, globalization and over-tourism from a geopolitical and economic prospective, so instead he talks about things more at his level: gelato, coffee, and quirkily decorated restaurants. With a bad, paternalistic attitude as well.

BTW we all hate those hipster burger places (which now turned to doing smash burgers), and they've been popping up everywhere even in totally non-touristy places. There are fashions and trends in the food business, and many Italians look at that with disgust and take refuge in tradition, but it is often not the tourists fault, it's Italians spending their money there.

Well cheeseburgers taste really good haha

Italians are posting about it on TikTok, and Italians are watching it on TikTok. It's not complicated.

I think the last part was touching on how Italians are also doing this and coming to tacky restaurants or etc? It feels like the author is guilty about being complicit in it to me

Yes, the big reveal is that he understands perfectly well he’s one of the asshole tourists in another context, too.

“No one goes to those hipster burger places making smash burgers now, they’re too crowded.”

- Yogi Berra

American "tolerance" has its merits, but a guest does not "tolerate" or "accept" their hosts.

Being oblivious to the cultural norms and tastes of your environs is, quite literally, being taste-less in that place/context.

Did you read it to the very end, where we all become American tourists, metaphorically speaking.

Actually I do not find American tourists obnoxious and ham fisted at all. Demanding? Maybe. That other word is specifically reserved for the drunk English bachelor partying in Southern Spain and Zakynthos. The American tourist is a bit naïve, like Twoflower, albeit without the sentient pearwood Luggage.

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