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Comment by seiji | Hacker News Reader

Many SV startups are proxies for being a close knit frat. Hiring for "cultural fit" has gone way off the wacko deep end. (Did google start this? "Oh, you don't have a degree? We won't hire you. Oh, but you do make your own beer and wear funny shoes? Cultural fit! Hired!")

Your job description skills matter, but only if you also are a functional alcoholic who is addicted to playing online games for 30+ hours a week in addition to working 60+ hours a week.*

Startup is Mother. Startup is Father.

* I write this out of bitterness because I don't drink or play video games, which oddly I feel disqualifies me from working many places. "Oh, you don't play xbox? That's okay, I guess. The entire company gets together for six hours on Friday to drink and play marathon games though."

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I'm in the same category. I don't enjoy drinking and I hate most video games, especially console ones and especially FPSes. The SV frat culture is such a turnoff.

What's absolutely hilarious about it is that it's not the same frat culture that typifies Wall Street. It's the nerd frats.

Despite being a "nerd", I think the more traditional sort of 'frat' is actually a lot more inviting. Without the video-game nonsense I think it is actually more accepting of lifestyles that don't involve primarily a couch. The thought of spending my own freetime playing video-games is revolting to me, I associate it with depression and loneliness (yes, online or otherwise multiplayer games too). It really seems like one of those all-or-nothing activities where you either spend hours a week doing it, living it, or you are forever the outsider.

Sure you can game in moderation, but if you do so you won't be a gamer. I think I average maybe a handful of hours a month playing games, and that is as much as I will ever see myself caring to spend on them. There is no way for me to relate to people who call themselves gamers.

The problem for me is the time investment required to be any good at gaming. When people say they want to play Super Smash Bros. or Halo or something, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do, no one wants to show me what to do, and so I lose interest very quickly. It's not like watching a movie, where you can spend two hours on it and come out with a decent understanding of the movie, even if you aren't a movie buff.

I think I know exactly what you mean. Super Smash Bros. is actually the exact game that made me realize I was no longer going to pretend to be a gamer, for exactly the reasons you explain.

It's not an all-or-nothing choice, though. I've had an Xbox 360 for years, and when my kids were born/adopted, I barely touched it. I hate playing against the knobs on Xbox Live, so I just stick with the single player stuff, or find friends to explore maps and blow stuff up. Very immature, I know. But it's fun. Look at my post up above...My Xbox is an early generation and I still hardly play it because I have better things to do most of the time.

I'm not sure what preconceptions you have about "gamers" are, but from what I know, most gamers are in their 30's and have lives outside of video games.

I wouldn't call myself a "gamer", as per your definition, but I've loved playing video games since the early 80's, which might not register with your experience. I'm an ordinary guy with a beautiful wife and kids. Not sure what your beef is.

I am talking about the "is addicted to playing online games for 30+ hours a week in addition to working 60+ hours a week." type.

I'll play video-games on occasion but to be able to pass myself off in that sort of gamer culture is I think impossible unless you are willing to glue yourself to a television for hours and hours a week.

Other types of "frats" do not need that level of dedication I think.

As a 40-year-old with two small kids, I understand about the video games, but only because I took a hiatus for a few years. I love playing Halo (I just ordered Halo 4), but not to play against teenagers on XBox Live. I like it for the solo campaign...so I can blast the shit out of aliens and have fun. Then, I get back to RealVille and take care of my kids. Also, having a few beers while playing is fun for me, but I completely understand your point of view. Maybe it's a midwest thing...eat cheese, drink beer, play games...have fun. When you get older you relish the free time to screw around and not have to be productive.

Wow, I would have been a "poor fit" when I was 20-30 because (1) I can't stand the taste of most alcoholic beverages, (2) I can't stand being around drunks, and (3) I thought the purpose of having a job was to do some damned work, not find a social club.

For me, work is about doing something that produces value for the shareholders so they can afford write me a paycheck on a regular basis. When I've finished doing that, I'd like to use my time the way I see fit, thank you very much.

I don't drink either, but I don't find it a barrier in hanging out with friends that do all the time. They have to get really drunk to start becoming obnoxious, which means they would be in no condition to play video games. As long as you don't act judgmental, many people will come to accept you not drinking.

> The entire company gets together for six hours on Friday to drink and play marathon games though.

Ugh I hate that. This one time, there was a few hours to bridge between the end of the work day and the start of the office Christmas party (presumably because some management guys had to drive back from out of town). The other programmers quickly set up a multiplayer Starcraft game and later an FPS deathmatch. I quickly found out both types of games are not a lot of fun unless you possess a modicum of skill in them (unlike, say, Tetris or 1000 Blank White Cards).

Huge fan of the Xbox, personally, but I'm inclined to agree with you.

i have a high-school degree and did two interviews with google, second of which followed up to live interview with MV engineers. didn't got hired because i wasn't good enough and i suck at interviews. always felt i was being judged by my talent, so i think that may be a myth ? edit: smartphone typos and minor edit

I do drink socially and for religious reasons, but I'm far more inclined to playing Prince of Persia or Diddy Kong Racing than some random recent FPS. Oy, does that disqualify me from all of Silicon Valley? I guess I'll just have to make do...

I got to mention that reading your comment, had me in splits, at 2 or 3 places ... "Oh, you don't have a degree? We won't hire you. Oh, but you do make your own beer and wear funny shoes? Cultural fit! Hired!" :-) ... "Startup is Mother. Startup is Father." How do you think that one? :-) :-)

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