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Comment by ndiddy | Hacker News Reader

Note that Ellipse/modelfkeyboards is notorious in the keyboard community for poor quality control and support. The keyboards often come misaligned or damaged in shipping, and it's up to you to fix them. I'm not sure about their beam spring keyboards, but their Model F keyboards come without keycaps installed, meaning that the keys haven't even been tested to actuate properly before the keyboard is shipped. If you have the money and free time, you can usually turn what you receive into a working product with enough tweaking. You just have to keep in mind that you'll be paying over $400 for a keyboard that may arrive broken, and if it does you will have as close to no warranty as what's legally possible. If you dig around on forums and in comments you can find a bunch of examples of this, but here's a decent summary: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Model_F_Labs

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At about the same time ModelFKeyboards posted his comment here, somebody created a new account on that wiki, then removed much of the negative information on the page and replaced it with similar wording to the comment (including deleting a scan of the warranty policy for "DMCA reasons"). This was what the page looked like at the time I made my comment: https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Model_F_Labs&old... . If it was him, this would violate the wiki's conflict of interest policy: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Conflict_... .

>At about the same time ModelFKeyboards posted his comment here, somebody created a new account on that wiki, then removed much of the negative information on the page and replaced it with similar wording to the comment (including deleting a scan of the warranty policy for "DMCA reasons").

I appreciate the alert, thank you my friend.

Thank you for looking into it!

I have a model F and yes it was tricky to get working. The new beam spring (v2, metal case) was a breeze to set up (just put the caps on, mx style) and works flawlessly.

The keyboard sits very high and it is a very different feel (long travel, very loud) but it is unlike any other keyboard I have used and very inexpensive compared to used original beam springs.

Worth a look if you are a retro keyboard enthusiast.

What a contrast against MoErgo, which I recently contacted just to notify them that a keycap broke in transport due to rough handling by the postal service.

Although spare keycaps came with the purchase and the broken one still worked anyway, they insisted on sending me a replacement for the keycap that broke.

I'm eyeing a MoErgo Go60 at the moment... Which one did you buy?

Glove80 with the heavier blossom switches, due to bad earlier experience with light linear MX switches. I could have gotten the lighter blossom variant and it would probably have been even better. (I was worried about accidental actuation but with the palm rest and key well that doesn't seem to happen much.) (From my understanding Chocs practically speaking only come in linear flavours, where the "tactile" switches are crunchy linear.)

I wanted to prioritise comfort over transportability and boy is it comfortable.

It's okay to transport too but with the size of its case I've had to upgrade to a bigger backpack to carry my workstation. (I work mostly from home but sometimes also from the in-laws house.)

I have had it for a month so I'll write a full review later.

> You just have to keep in mind that you'll be paying over $400 for a keyboard that may arrive broken, and if it does you will have as close to no warranty as what's legally possible.

PinePhone Pro vibes, except the PPP's problem isn't lack of QC; it's just lack of (FOSS) SW support. Pay 400 bucks, may need lots of tweaking/work to get it usable. Market is enthusiasts that aren't satisfied by anything else and/or that want to support it out of principle.

Basically everything pine64 ships has a. We dumped all software development and support on the foss community. Problem. And the hardware isn't even that open. I do still like their non locked in approach though. And the pinephone is still one of few truly Linux phones.

> And the hardware isn't even that open.

It's the most open, pretty sure... What other company is selling smartphones with schematics, datasheets, and ICs you're able to get independently from electronic component distributors? Even with Purism, maybe I'm looking wrong, but I don't see the schematics and datasheets of the Librem 5. Fairphone has some schematics, but its parts list is lacking, and the components it does show aren't generally available for purchase. For example, I don't see where I can buy Fairphone 5 chipset, a QCM6490, but I can buy a Pinephone Pro's RK3399. Same with its modem, same with its PMIC, same with its eMMC, etc. It's really a gem of open hardware that's been lost.

Thanks for posting this. I've been looking at getting one but this has made me pause.

Yeah it's a shame because his keyboards are genuinely good, I just find it strange that he operates like this. If he charged an extra $100 or whatever and acted like a normal company (fully assembling and testing prior to shipping out products, packaging things properly so they don't get damaged in shipping, having a mail-in warranty service, that sort of thing) I think he'd have better sales.

All of those things would cost a hell of a lot more than $100 unit. Probably closer to doubling the price.

See my sibling comment: the v2 beam spring keyboard (metal version) worked immediately out of the box and all I had to do was but key caps on.

This is an enthusiast producing these and the beam spring mechanism is entirely redone with modern touches (e.g. support for mx style keycaps) so there is risk, but mine works great. I think that the fully enclosed beam spring mechanism should hold up better during shipping than the spring-and-barrel mechanism on the model F.

Of course YMMV and it is an expensive and rare keyboard, but my experience has been good.

Guess I spin around and go back to Unicomp...

Kinda digging the Mini M. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M

I suppose you have to look at it as this person is just unwilling or unable to operate in a different way at this price point, and if you want a new beam spring keyboard, right now there is no competitor.

The keyboards look janky. Why buy this over something like Das Keyboard which has mechanical keys as well and is cheaper?

Because it’s a physical mechanism that has a unique feel that modern switches don’t mimic.

I like lots of keyboards and switches but this is a unique switch with deep historical roots that has been brought back to life by an enthusiast. I think it’s worth supporting (if you can afford it) on general principle.

Essentially every keyboard key is mechanical. Most "mechanical keyboards" are using Cherry MX or Cherry MX-like key switches.

The key switches in these are as different in design from a Cherry MX switch as a Cherry MX switch is from a rubber dome.

MX switches are the entry point of the "mechanical keys". You can go into way too many rabbit holes beyond consumer brands like Das Keyboard.

There are topre capacitive switches (HHKB, Realforce etc) , buckling spring switches like the ones in this post (& older IBM model M, Unicomp), Alps switches (older mac keyboards, matias), and an endless selection of MX compatible customized switches. All with different tactility and sound profiles.

Merely "having mechanical keys" is a very basic criteria especially for enthusiasts who might have very specific requirements and preference for how their keyboards should feel and sound. This one is mainly targeted towards those enthusiasts.

Mechanical was always a dumb name. A collapsing rubber dome is a mechanism anyway.

It's a real shame that the world standardized on MX and ALPS has been left in the dust.

I think it's because ALPS stopped making keyswitches when rubber domes completely took over the market in the early 2000s, and Cherry kept making MX switches. When the mechanical keyboard market started back up in the early 2010s, Cherry was there and ALPS wasn't. I agree it's a shame. I think we've seen clicky switches become a niche and most of the market switch to linear switches mainly because MX style clicky switches are fundamentally incapable of feeling as tactile or having as deep of a click as ALPS style switches due to how they're shaped and how the components are arranged internally. I don't blame everybody for preferring linear if "clicky" means "high pitched plasticky sound and a barely perceptible bump in the middle of the key travel". At least Matias still makes modern ALPS style switches, they're one of the best clicky options available today.

> At least Matias still makes modern ALPS style switches, they're one of the best clicky options available today.

Would be great if they don't have chatter issues.. I'm typing on my third matias and all three started chattering after some use. Their quiet switches are the best tactile ones I've ever tried. Sound so nice too.

Their clicky switches (Matias Click) don't have this issue, I think it's only on the tactile ones (Matias Quiet Click). Agreed that it's a shame they've been selling them for so long and haven't worked out how to make them not chatter.

What does chatter mean ?

one key press resulting in multiple registers.

if my T key is chatttering my ttyping would look something like tthis.

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