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Comment by robspairpears | Hacker News Reader

Bought the Framework 12 as my personal daily driver (limited hobby projects, Obsidian, light browsing) and for the hardware to grow with my use cases.

So even if I could get more bang for my buck with a Neo (yeah, I could), the tinkerability and repairability win over raw specs for what I actually use it for. Did I pay more for a less polished, less powerful machine? Yep. Is it enjoyable to use and fully capable of meeting my requirements? Yep.

Came to bikeshed but the video was more nuanced and fair than this title.

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> Came to bikeshed but the video was more nuanced and fair than this title.

Same here. It isn't hard to justify buying something like the Framework 12 in principle.

I have bought multiple Framework computers and I continue to be a fan, not because it is the best in any single category. It is because I want computers to be bought and sold in the vision that the Framework folks seem to have.

When I purchase a Framework I'm not purchasing a single computer. I'm buying a laptop-of-Theseus that I can continue to use throughout the future. When parts get broken, or a fancy new part is better, I buy the parts and upgrade it rather than buy a whole new device.

I also run an operating system that is publicly developed and available.

You won't see these things on a spec sheet or influencer demo.

I've never bought a new laptop in my life, and I have a Framework 13 Pro on preorder because it's the only new laptop I will ever need to buy.

When I did my research, I found that Framework costs more than the competition across the entire stack, but it's by a fixed amount, $150 give or take. That's maybe a 7% premium for a high-end laptop, but a 30% premium at the low end. Obviously the price gap vs a Neo is even wider.

The question is whether that price gap arises from a fixed cost inherent to better product design, or if it's just the cost of Framework's smaller scale. I tend to think it's the latter.

That's completely fair and that would be my process exactly, if not for one thing -- fan noise.

I really _hate_ laptop fan noises. That's why a Macbook Neo will win for me when I get to travel more. Hopefully the world will produce a good competition for it in the meantime.

That's fair, we all have our preferences. Each vendor has "their feature" that drives sales, for sure. Neo has the "I hate fan noise" crowd. Lenovo has the "I like the pointer nub" crowd. Dell has the... uh... well they have that secure boot thing.

Precisely this. It's not the fastest machine, but it's not the slowest, and that's more than adequate for other factors to tip the scale.

And I VERY much want to encourage this approach. Laptops COULD be as modular as desktops, and they've proven it with a real machine, not a toy, not a gimmick, not a compliance-car. A genuinely useful piece of hardware that I've been daily-driving for almost 2 years now.

I very much believe in putting my money where my mouth is.

Would I go back to another laptop? Well, if someone else starts making motherboards that'll drop into this chassis, I'd consider it...

This is the same reason I bought my Framework 13. For the same price/less could I have bought a nice MacBook? Yes, but Framework's mission is something I wanted to support and it's an exciting product. I'm still very happy with my purchase.

> repairability

I would actually rate Neo having higher repairability. It is simply much better design and built even from a repair point of view. Speaker, Keyboard and Battery are the most common thing for repairing. It is only RAM and SSD that is better, but that is a different set of trade offs with performance and battery usage compromise.

> Speaker, Keyboard and Battery are the most common thing for repairing

All of which are famously nightmarish repairs on Macbooks, and line-replacable on Frameworks.

I think you're alone in this regard, I'd trust the Framework 8 days out of the week.

>All of which are famously nightmarish repairs on Macbooks,

Not for Neo. Which is why Neo is a much bigger deal in its design, but most are focusing on its pricing.

Yes for Neo. The laptop scored a whopping six on iFixit, compared to Framework 12's score of 10: https://www.ifixit.com/News/116152/macbook-neo-is-the-most-r...

We don't know what replacement keyboards will cost. It's probably cheaper than the $600 MBP topcase repairs that are normally warranted, but I doubt it will reach the $20 mark of Thinkpad or Framework repairs. The "repairable design" is a bartering chit for enterprise customers, not a marketing stunt for the Framework crowd. Those people are right to ignore Apple's promises here, the battle is only partway won.

You could get 4 Lenovo X280 if you just need an overpowered notepad.

Yeah, or a Macbook Neo! No need to disparage other people's use cases.

Fair, vendor lock-in doesn't matter when it's a notepad.

But that's still 3 X280s if all you need an overpowered notepad. It's my daily driver for exactly that use case, so no disparage there.

And it's still overpowered for that. But it's so tiny...

Also don't buy new if it's not for (critical) business, I want to add.

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