AOC displays drinking water contaminated by data center | Hacker News Reader

AOC displays drinking water contaminated by data center

bsky.app

81 pointscdrnsf56 comments

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I don't read bsky due to javascript requirement.

Here are some sources that don't require js:

https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/media/press-releases/ocasio-...

https://www.commondreams.org/news/aoc-data-centers-water

https://www.rawstory.com/aoc-data-center-drinking-water/

That'll teach 'em!

Sorry people like a web experience not loaded down with a 15MB super-elite-tracking-plus custom react framework?

I agree, that's why I use this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20050210102349/http://archive.nc...

> I don't read bsky due to javascript requirement.

They also openly display communist symbols that are banned in much of Europe.

Most of europe has communist parties running in elections and getting non negligible scores, then alliances and seats in parliaments, municipal councils, ...

7 out of 719 MEP seats.

Also you need to look up what is a communist symbol.

We don't have a red scare. Communist symbols aren't a dealbreaker in europe.

Oh no, symbols!

should the whole AT-protocol thing make it easy to programmaticly access it, no js? Im genuinely asking, never used it

I'm not sure if/how much of these (water) issues are the data centers themselves vs poor water management or other issues. Most water use in data centers should be able to be self-sufficient, mostly closed, and filtered/reusable locally... It's not like manufacturing.

Now, power usage is another story entirely and is outright concerning and should probably require a nuclear plant near some of these data centers as new construction.

  > Most water use in data centers should be able to be self-sufficient, mostly closed

[Citation Needed]

My understanding is that data centers CAN use closed-loop systems. But, most don't if they're not forced to, because it costs more than evaporating towers.

According to this[1], 88% of water-cooled data-centers use open-loop evaporation towers.

"up to 85% of the water data centers use evaporates and does not return to the water supply" [2]

[1] https://intelligence.uptimeinstitute.com/sites/default/files...

[2] https://mostpolicyinitiative.org/science-note/data-center-wa...

> up to 85% of the water data centers use evaporates and does not return to the water supply

Because the water vapor undergoes antimatter annihilation in the atmosphere so the molecules disappear I suppose?

It ends up in someone's water supply, evntually, but not necessarily the water supply they got it from.

No one is saying the water is destroyed, but it is removed from the local community that depends on it at a significantly faster rate when used this way.

Which seems incredibly inefficient and expensive. I find it hard to believe.

I think anti-ai people should find something better than water to complain about. its too hard to explain to people why a billion gpus might need water ("isn't water bad for computers", "the water just gets recycled" ect), and honestly I don't think I fully get it. Talking about the electricity and CO2 might be easier, or job losses, or x-risk, but water is too abstract.

Access to drinkable water is pretty important.

Except for it's so un-abstract, AOC literally has a JAR OF IT to demonstrate part of the issue. People understand they don't want their drinking water to look like the water in the jar. That is about as un-abstract as you can get. It makes the issue very real.

This isn't even about excess water use, it's about water pollution.

If you think you'd get wider consensus while talking about CO2, which is so abstract that we have a climate change denialism faction running the government, you're being naive.

Meanwhile, in Texas, they arrest people for documenting the water:

Woman files lawsuit after arrest for Facebook post concerning Trinidad water supply issues

https://www.fox4news.com/news/woman-arrested-facebook-post-c...

People opposed to data centres remind me of people opposed to mask wearing.

Both are attempting to dismiss something useful and important, over trivial and manageable issues.

No relation.

non-random source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOQ-vH5fAk8

Happens at my house sometimes. And has also happened at my previous apartments. Looks exactly the same. When they do construction on water pipes some of the sediment gets in and has to be cleared by the neighborhood. She is either lying or doesn't know what she's talking about. I also guarantee she shook up the bottle before her presentation because the sediment would have settled after a few hours.

It's the title that makes it murky. Should be "AOC displays drinking water contaminated by data center construction".

And yes, when water flows from a tap into a cup it gets "shaken up" plenty.

you missing the point that its a very temporary thing, or are you being deceived into thinking its permanent? If you are, then you are helping making my point for me.

Thanks. The dirty water is temporary, if by temporary you mean months. Do you think that disrupting water supply for more than a few hours is acceptable?

In any case, why are you defending the giant corporation doing this?

Construction affecting residents is a normal problem for local government, regulation, and civil law to deal with. Wielding it as a weapon in the moral crusade against the evils of AI is demagoguery.

> In any case, why are you defending the giant corporation doing this?

You are just not getting it. When they add new pipes, or attach to mains, they interrupt the flow of water. When its turned backed on, the flow of water kicks up the sediment that's already in the pipes. There's probably also a little that comes in from construction. Why people don't know this I have no idea, its happened to me many times in multiple locations. It goes away in a few hours usually. Never seen it last for more than a day.

I guess all the residents have to do is let their tap water settle and then make sure to not let their straw hit the bottom of the glass.

If you didn't get the point: this is a temporary thing that is normal and has nothing to do with big bad data centers. It usually clears out in about a day and its just sediment.

The more people will despise AI, the better

That doesn't make any sense. Data centers just use some water for water cooling of cpus, there isn't anything to pollute. If this isn't fake, its probably a broken line.

Rushed construction affecting well water https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy8gy7lv448o

Love how the haters conclude decisively there could not be any justification other than she’s wrong. They’ve thought of everything.

So its nothing to do with a data center, its something any large scale building could cause.

Are we supposed to conveniently ignore the mountains of money currently being shoveled into building new data centers as quickly as possible without any regard for negative externalities?

> its probably a broken line

Per her website (which is hosting the transcript of the interview here: https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/media/press-releases/ocasio-...) seems that the cause is known and acknowledge to be construction

"""

...A few weeks ago, while Congress was in recess, I visited Morgan County, Georgia, where Meta is building a massive data center campus. They are clear cutting forests and began heavy construction, including explosive blasting, and families in the area are starting to see not only their water pressure decrease, to your point about water availability, but their appliances have all stopped working because it is decimating their water quality.

They now rely on bottled water to drink and prepare meals, and nearby residents' water bills are expected to increase by 33%. In fact, I have a jar right here. This is the current drinking water in Morgan County, Georgia, right after a data center was constructed, the Meta data center was constructed. ...

"""

Makes plenty of sense to me, the company that profited off of the Myanmar genocide likely also doesn't care about local regulations either or the impacts on American civilians either.

Burma

My bad, you right.

Overdrawing water from an aquifer can disturb sediment. There are many second-order effects to consider.

It’s cheaper to use lots of water for cooling than to make a closed system where you have to cool it yourself. Easy solution is to only give them a small pipe for restrooms.

> Data centers just use some water for water cooling of cpus, there isn't anything to pollute.

I wonder why they're using up and dumping all the water then. If the water was clean they'd consume none... it'd just flow through their CPU's, into tanks, and back into municipal water supply.

Isn't the water used for evaporative cooling? Not much to return then I'd assume.

Edit:

Upon looking into it, looks like a portion of it (tens of percents) becomes a concentrated fluid called "blowdown", filled with minerals from the water source, and various treatment additives used for ensuring that the thing keeps flowing and doesn't become a growth media. This does need to be flushed out periodically, and is apparently supposed to be directed towards a water reclamation plant (e.g. via the sewage system).

I don't necessarily find it a reasonable suggestion that it should be cleaned in place, although it does look like a number of DCs actually do, but obviously I do agree it should not just be dumped yolo.

It seems like you didnt watch the source video. The water is allegedly contaminated by the construction of a new datacenter.

lets get something strait about the scale off data centers, and how they compare to any OTHER mega INDUSTRIAL project, bieng done in a massive rush backed by massive amounts of capital with a lax, very lax, regulatory environment

we strait now?

or is it thissy that, footsy, look LOOK!, over there!

CHINA!

Most of these AI datacenters need to be moved to space. For many AI uses, the resulting latency would be altogether acceptable.

nothing about data centres in space makes sense if you understand even a modicum of physics https://taranis.ie/datacenters-in-space-are-a-terrible-horri...

The primary argument of the article is that cooling in space is limited, that GPUs emit significant heat, that this is the primary blocker. Well, as it stands, datacenters aren't effectively cooling on the Earth. They're passing their heat to the planet, and are heating up the planet. They're producing significant CO2 emissions, and using up the water and electricity resources of communities. The problems from having datacenters on Earth far exceed having them in space.

In space, it's a closed small system, so the equations are immediately apparent. On Earth we just make it the next generation's problem.

The ISS is constrained by being in Earth orbit. There however is absolutely no reason for datacenters to be in Earth orbit, and so they have much larger space available to them for radiative cooling while being in solar orbit.

As for the hardware, it cannot be what we use on Earth. It has to be hardened chips for use in space.

If you lack an imagination, it's your problem, and societally it will cost us everything. I advise scrolling down on your linked page to read the comments by Saha, etc.

The primary argument of the article is that it's physically impossible to dissipate enough heat to power even a modest data centre in space. What you refer to as lack of imagination is my understanding of basic thermodynamics which you sadly lack.

There is no size limit to radiators in space. Also, the radiative surface can very well be in 3D, just not packed as densely as a heatsink for use on Earth.

Secondly, there is a lot that can be done to drive down the size of the radiator. A heat pump can be used to radiate heat at much higher temperatures, thereby requiring a smaller radiator. Moreover, a metamaterial surface can be used to prevent self-absorption.

On Earth, people like you keep sending the bill to the next generation. In space, the bill is due immediately. There is no real difference in the amount due.

There is a video (AI researched and generated) that discusses heat rejection for space compute, mainly achievable by raising the temperature of heat rejection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Mv_OcBXI8

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