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Comment by bjourne | Hacker News Reader

People who think unions don't benefit workers are the flat earthers of the 21st century.

And those that believe unions benefit workers, particularly in the tech space, are the same people that think life would be better under a collectivist form of government and that the minimum wage needs to be raised continuously. Unions had their place in early 20th century. Those conditions are in the past. If your "conditions" in a tech job needs improvement, get a new job. Anyone that went into tech expecting it to be like a 7-3 manufacturing job, went into the wrong business. I spent years working 60+ hours a week and loved it. If you don't, change careers.

Working 60+ hours a week for years is nothing to brag about. It just means your projects were mismanaged, done poorly and you were absolutely taken advantage of. You also mentioned in another comment that you are disposable if you are "slinging code" 40+ hours a week.

No, we weren’t being taken advantage of. We were working a project that changed an industry dramatically. The projects weren’t mismanaged. They were very aggressive to be sure, but that’s sometimes what it takes to be first and change things. We did it voluntarily and were well compensated for the times. As for disposable code slingers? That’s been true for the last 30+ years.

So which industry was changed dramatically by your team working 60+ hours a week for years? If you we’re compensated for overtime you can thank unions for that, if you worked voluntarily overtime you were by definition taken advantage of.

> As for disposable code slingers? That’s been true for the last 30+ years.

The last 30 years saw massive growth in SWE salaries. That doesn’t happen if SWEs are disposable.

We aren't talking true software engineers. We're talking about people that think their job is to write code and nothing else. Yes, SWE salaries have gone up a good deal in recent years. However, we heard the same outcries about unions in the late 80s-90s when outsourcing and offshoring began to flourish. As for compensation for voluntary overtime? It had nothing to do with unions and everything to do with visionary management and aggressive, committed team members. The average person in the industry today doesn't have the same drive. I saw that repeatedly the last few years I managed. Their expectations were based on what they had read about FAANG jobs, which didn't reflect the typical commercial situation. So while salaries did rise, they weren't competitive with the Big Tech firms. That's just reality. But those applying to the jobs thought differently. It was common to get college graduates from middle and lower tier schools or junior developers with 1-2 years experience expecting to make $150K+ and get 4 weeks of vacation. That's just not realistic at most companies. And if you were able to reach a mutual agreement, they seldom stayed more than a year or two before trying to leverage up another notch.

Brother, you voluntarily worked overtime without compensation because you "loved it" and thought you were already highly compensated. All this means is that your company took advantage of free labor and you missed out on being paid for your work. Whatever your compensation levels are, giving free labor to your employer is a foolish game. 60+ hours a week for years, come on...those projects are absolutely mismanaged if the work can’t be done without that much overtime.

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