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> The US has a robust corporate legal system

Thanks for the chuckle. ;)

It does, though.

It does until you're embedded enough with the surveillance system [1]. If a company was able to get immunity in the wat AT&T got it, no contract would protect the other side.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepting_v._AT%26T

That case has nothing to do with contract law.

And the govt protects its citizens and God is real

Yeah. Well.

I guess as a European I want the legal system to be robust in terms of protecting the citizen’s interests against corporations. I can see how you can also want robustness in terms of protecting corporate interests against citizens, so, yes, the statement remains technically true in terms of robustness.

In terms of justice, again as a European, I think of Justitia, the Roman Godess, who judges based on “ideals of truth, fairness, honesty and justice“, “applied without regard to wealth, power, or other status”, evaluating “the goodness of the heart”. I don’t see these values represented much in the US so-called “justice” system.

Both aspects sufficiently documented for example over and over again in Matt Levine’s financial reporting.

None of those have anything to do with robustness.

Huh?

Cambridge Dictionary: “the quality of being strong, and healthy or unlikely to break or fail”

I provided two dimensions in which I consider the US justice system to have failed. I can provide more. You of course can prioritize different dimensions, but that doesn’t invalidate that I am also talking about robustness. Robustness is not an absolute, but always an adjective - related to a specific aspect.

The top-level discussed a theoretical risk of data being exfiltrated by third parties for training. Other comments discussed contract law and legal remedies, including Delaware’s excellent court system for handling business disputes.

None of this means you don’t have the same rights as an individual to enforce contract terms. I think the top commenters discussed corporate law because that is where most IP theft occurs, and corporate customers have strong contracts covering data protection.

When I chuckle because of the idea that one sees the US corporate legal system as “robust”, and then give an explanation for why I (me! personally!) chuckled, what is the point of trying to argue? For what exactly?

To give yet another personal reason for my chuckle besides the ones I already gave: I don’t consider a legal system where I can simply move state when I don’t like the law not very robust. Or one that can “look back to (a mere) 200 years of case law” - especially given how that is being (re)interpreted in recent years.

That is my personal opinion. You’re entitled to your opinion, your definitions, your perspectives. I remain chuckling :) we don’t have to always agree or dig holes of rational debate, we can just find stuff funny or not. I volunteered why it is funny to me when that causes irritation with some. I read the high number of upvotes as potential agreement.

It's an accurate statement. The US (specifically Delaware) has a world-class corporate law system. Delaware has a court dedicated to only corporate and commercial disputes, with 200+ years of case law.

Man, good thing no one’s ever done something like reincorporate Tesla and SpaceX in Texas after loosing a court case in said Delaware court and having a pissy fit about it.

The state of incorporation doesn't often matter in interstate contracts. Usually they will include a choice of law and forum selection clause specifically to avoid this kind of thing.

> There is no reason do this, because there are far better ways to exfiltrate data from Anthropic models. Chinese companies are already doing this at an industrial scale where they are reselling Claude tokens for 10-20% of the cost while retaining the data to train their own models.

I think you missed the part where Anthropic stopped displaying their thinking tokens over the past few months, and instead now provides “summarized thinking”, letting Haiku summarize Opus’ thoughts.

So it is now much more difficult (impossible?) to distill the models.

I also think you over-estimate how well the legal systems works in the US nowadays, and under-estimate just how much power Elon has in the government.

At this scale thinking tokens don't matter anymore.

In Feb Anthropic called out three Chinese labs for "distillation attacks", but a lab missing in their post actually had most Claude generated tokens among all Chinese labs in their midtrain data :p

Incidentally, Claude started the "Summarized Thinking" bullshit around a year ago.

Deepseek kept its pace of improvement nonetheless.

I hope the Chinese keep harvesting Claude etc. since they stole all their data anyway, who cares?

I guess there's a reason why those Chinese companies are in china

Under US law, LLM outputs are not under copyright. Even if those companies were under the American jurisdiction[1], the worst thing they would be guilty of is a breach of ToS.

1. OpenRouter is based in New York, and offers a 1% discount when users enable logging of their inputs/outputs; it doesn't take a genius to figure out why they might incentivize that