A Wayland Compositor in Minecraft
modrinth.com
modrinth.com
Link to source: https://github.com/EVV1E/waylandcraft
Jokes aside, I've grown to love "XYZ in Minecraft". It's like a newer (still 2011 was a long time ago!) version of "Doom on XYZ".
Animations are much smoother, frames are dropped much less, and there's very little artifacts. It's almost uncanny how good desktop compositing looks right now.
Naturally, some people don't care or don't notice. I notice because I run everything at 240hz and I'm a freak. But, for me, so far everything has worked in wayland. I have not had to boot up an x11 session on Debian 13 with KDE. And, mind you, this is Debian - not bleeding edge. But, screen sharing works, audio works, everything.
Thats okay, just understand that it DOES matter to some people.
what also matters is the actual developers doing the work, which GREATLY prefer wayland
That same year I decided to give Wayland my third shot and what you know... it not only was perfectly smooth all the time but it had finally reached a point where I could use it on my HTPC. Less than a year later and it was finally usable on my desktop and laptop, and since then I haven't really looked back.
The point is, even if you could get a smooth experience it was at best an exception, specially across most of X11 life. There are many reasons why the Steam Deck shipped with Steam running through the gamescope micro compositor, and one of them was sidestepping some of the X11 jank.
I’m amazed at how smooth it is and how much just works.
Not my usual Linux development experience with xorg.
besides, even without using that, for the vast vast majority of users, there is no pain, they dont even realized they've switched to wayland, their distributions simply did it.
and people ARE paying a price staying with xorg, theres a reason projects like KDE are very happy about the change.
this is not how it works. They have actual real data from real users about how many use wayland vs xorg, they also sit on the bugtracker, and they sit with the code. they also have very clear knowledge of how much time they can dedicate to make KDE better, both for themselves and EVERYONE.
They have decided that it is best for everyone to outphase X support. Several top contributors to KDE have also explained how several issues that people kept having under X, resulting in LOADS of bug reports, have more or less vanished now during wayland.
You might be having issues, others might too, but its arrogant to presume to think you know that most people are not better off than before, and of course those that at the end of the day matter most, the developers. This does not mean they want to hurt anyone.
But I am not complaining about KDE, they can do whatever they feel best for their projec.t I do not use KDE and - if they make decisions like this - never will.
But please do not tell me my real world experience is an imagination because someone else decided what is best for me. This is like Microsoft telling me I need to like clippy.
I explicitly said im sure some have worse experience with wayland, perhaps read what I wrote?
Are you denying wayland is net benefit for the majority?
This is what the actual X developers are saying, which coincidentally are also the wayland developers, and several downstream projects like gnome/kde.
SOME of the issues could have some solutions implemented, but far from all. just look at xlibre, before they even came to functionality they broke stuff in changing things - which they admittedly have fixed for now, but lets follow that and see how far they go.
on one side we have all the developers of Xorg etc saying one thing, and you(and others, that I presume are not involved with Xorg) saying another.
Wayland could have also been 10 years earlier, but because most people just coasted on xorg, which I agree has been kinda reasonable, nobody really took it serious until recently.
you are also moving the goalpost in regards of net benefit. Just because SOME things could be done in X, doesnt mean its not also a benefit to have it in wayland.
The main strength of Wayland is that it encourages competing implementations. There are many Wayland compositors. That might be interpreted as a downside, but what it allows is innovation and incremental improvement. Something that was just not happening with X.
You could argue that it could have happened with X. What you can't argue is that it did, because it didn't and that's not up for debate. That's just the truth.
And, it doesn't even matter anymore, because x.org isn't being actively developed in any meaningful sense anymore.
edit: what are you gonna do if it turns out you cant avoid wayland? have you considered actually reporting the bugs you might see in wayland instead? because the future very much looks like A LOT of things are gonna go more and more wayland, its gonna be with reduced functionality to stay on X
I maintain that the Linux desktop in 2021 was actually less usable than it was in 2016. But things have really turned around since then.
A good replacement of X11 would have had a well designed local mode that abstracted modern hardware in all configurations and an actually good network protocol.
We're left with a barely-working local mode with awful X11 stuck on top.
And we've moved to it for purely political reasons.
Like okay yeah we could all just stick to X. But in order to do that we need X to be developed, which it's not.
I don't think we disagree on facts at all.
I, for one, like Wayland's design. The problem was that it was incomplete and the implementations were buggy. Well, now the protocol is feature-complete and the implementations are solid.
KDE got some kind of video bridge recently which is an insane workaround for something that should've just worked.
You're worried that capturing Wayland screens from X11 applications requires additional software?
How is that a real complaint? The only way this would be possible without additional software is if Wayland itself was just another X11 Version, if Wayland was X12 which is X11 but with protocol changes that break backwards compatibility, you would run into exactly the same problem.
Your standard for something being insane is that it is not 100% identical to X11.
I love it.
There's a big difference between something being compiled to run inside of Minecraft, versus running a sidecar that streams back a display. It's the difference between compiling and running on your machine, and streaming back a cloud machine using RDP.
Not like this makes a difference to users, who don't know how any of this works. But we are on Hacker News...
This is closer to PSDoom:
But other than a demo "because we can" I'm confused on what this could ever be useful for. AR/VR prototyping? Virtual showroom?
Or maybe for an online presentation? Stream a video of playing Minecraft and get fancy slide transitions? "let's go to the next slide" and "now we enter dangerous territory".. "over here I can show you how this program looks like in real life"
a very near example would be immersed vr which is compatible with xorg and does essentially the same thing (2d windows pasted all over a 3d world), although not integrated into minecraft. also since their solution isn't wayland-centric it has ports to osx and windows.
wayland deserves credit but not for this concept.
>If you're reading this, you're likely in the same boat as me. You've discovered that Immersed can create virtual monitors for Windows and Mac, but on Linux, this feature is marked as "unsupported" on X11. This means you can't create virtual monitors directly through the Immersed agent. For now, the known workaround is to manually set up virtual monitors. If you use Wayland, now immersed offer support for native virtual displays on the Immersed agent on gnome Wayland. You can access this options in Immersed client menu -> Setting -> Configure virtual displays. Other Wayland DE/Compositors are not supported, but there are ways to create virtual monitors manually as we do on X11, please check the linux-help channel in the Discord server for more info.
Basically immersed vr doesn't support X11 windows, it only supports X11 screens, which means you would have to create a new screen manually for each window.
X11 has an entire drawing API. It'd probably be easier to run through Xwayland.