The Pirate Bay Trial - A Spectrial
trial.thepiratebay.org
trial.thepiratebay.org
It's based on a court decision where IFPI (association of record companies) sued Danish Internet providers, claiming that since illegal content could be downloaded from thepiratebay all access should be blocked. Unfortunately they won, meaning that I can't read this post (Well, I can, but non-tech savvy users can't) and that I can't get linux torrents, and other legal content.
Looking at the court case Google, youtube, and many other sites should also be blocked since they also give a user the possibility of locating and downloading illegal content. But I guess these targets are too big...
It's absolutely appalling and a clear breach of free speech.
1) Thepiratebay's blog is also covered, thus making it impossible for them to state their case to the people. Effectively their voice is censored by the ban.
2) Thepiratebay isn't illegal in Sweden. Banning something that isn't illegal borders on totallitarian.
I'm confused. I thought you said it was banned in Denmark, not Sweden. What does Swedish law matter if you're a Dane?
The piratebay is not illagel in Sweden (yet) in the sense that last time there was a court case about the legality of linking to copyrighted material it was found to be legal. I think this was in 1995 or something.
If The Piratebay is found illegal then the ISP's will not go after the site but they will go after ISP's and force them to block the URL like they have in Denmark
What percentage of Google's traffic do you think is legal? I would guess at least 80%.
These things matter in court.
The problem here is that it has turned out to be notoriously hard to go after the distributors of the files so now the legal spotlight has turned on the distributors of the whereabouts of those files.
I once wrote a bit about this stating in brief that the piratebay is the internet equivalent of saying that you know where there is a bicycle standing without a lock, clearly that should be legal.
STEALING the bicycle is illegal.
The assembly of information is rarely a bad thing. Theft of said bikes is the 'bad thing'. Punish the people stealing, not the people creating maps.
Plus many organizations, including many governments, perform equally line-skirting things when collecting credit data, purchasing information, and private information. At least if it is public, you could see that your bike is known to be unlocked, so you could do something about it.
The pirate bay is seen/treated differently than all other user-content-generated sites, but it shouldnt be. Fair is fair.
I think you are misrepresenting the logic. The difference here is the difference between a common sense argument & an argument that contains clearly distinguishable definitions. The latter is the kind needed (usually) for legal matters. But a lot of the time we are just trying to find a legally acceptable definition for the common sense argument. 'Illegal if it's mostly for illegal stuff,' is not the kind of law courts would be comfortable with. But I would argue that the issue is with defining an abstract principle. Sometimes these issues are resolved with linguistically.
The Pirate Bay's Raison D'Etre is pretty much to do with illegal content. The existence of some legal reasons is a fringe issue. (You might dispute this. In that case, the argument is over this point.) Imagine your unlocked bike list. Or how about a children home alone list. Defining this in an airtight manner that would satisfy the common sense is almost impossible. Specifically defining 'mostly' (as in mostly illegal content) would create a situation where there is a threshold to be met. This shelter could be used as a shield against prosecution. Defining it in terms (eg intent) would create different problems.
But these are problems always present in legislation. That doesn't mean you give up on laws. I think that most proponents of Pirate Bay (regardless how clever the arguments) are in the medical marijuana camp. They aren't themselves convinced that Pirate Bay should be there because of possible legal uses. They are themselves convinced by believing that content should be free or that IP laws should be changed or that Government shouldn't take on itself the role of policing this realm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_of_negligence
This is an ambiguous standard, but it gives the judge a guideline to make his ruling.
Similarly in criminal cases, intent must be present for criminal act to have occurred. This is another fuzzy rule, but probably a good one.
Law is never hard and fast. Don't believe me? Ask a lawyer.
Common sense gives is a pretty clear sense of legality here. Pirate Bay = Mostly illegal content. Google = All content (mostly legal). Youtube = ambiguous but has a clear substantial & non-trivial legal component.
'Common Sense' can be misleading in many situations -- medicine, law, business strategy, crime, etc. What is common sense to you about software may not be common sense to someone with no IT knowledge, and vice versa with regards to, say, how cheese is manufactured.
The law adapts, sure, but it also tries to maintain order by being resistant to quick change. The fact that most of our legal system defaults to prior case law should say something about this.
That said, I am not an attorney. I just know using common sense seems like an incredibly bad basis for determining legality.
illegal:
- thieves could use it to go and steal those bikes
legal:
- bike owners could monitor the index and know they've left their bikes unlocked so they had better go and lock it
- law enforcement could monitor those bikes because they know they are at extra risk of being stolen
- law enforcement could use the index to take the bikes in to protective custody, to return them to their owners upon presentation of proof of ownership.
And if that is not feasible or legal that does not make the pirate bay illegal, it just means you have a real problem.
Do U.S. lawmakers know that (facilitating crime should be legal)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)
In some jurisdictions, criminal "facilitation" laws do not require that the primary crime be actually committed as a prerequisite for criminal liability. These include state statutes making it a crime to "provide" a person with "means or opportunity" to commit a crime, "believing it probable that he is rendering aid to a person who intends to commit a crime." [...]
The U.S. criminal code makes aiding and abetting a federal crime itself a crime [...]
The elements of aiding and abetting are, generally:
(1) guilty knowledge on the part of the accused ( the mens rea);
Driving a friend around town is perfectly legal.
Driving a friend around town who just robbed a bank is not.
Saying "I have a bomb" in a school play is perfectly legal.
Saying "I have a bomb" to a bank teller is not.
I don't know about Sweden or Denmark, but anyway I suggest not to jump to conclusions unless you know more about the laws in those countries.
I just find the argument "we weren't really doing anything illegal, we were just helping you do something illegal by getting you 90% of the way there; so we should be legal." to be tedious and unconvincing.
No, this is not about "freedom of speech".
It isn't in some countries. It's been proven in court many times.
There's a reason power is divided into a legislative, judicial and executive branch in a democracy.
This is very clearly a case of the judicial branch being bent by the recording industry. Since TBP isn't illegal there should be no case. If the legislative branch sees a problem and changes the law it's a very different scenario.
http://www.johnsjolander.com/2009/02/support-pirate-bay-by-c...
There have been so many "mistakes" (aka abuse of power) made during this whole process that I'm ashamed to be a Swede. This sort of thing really shows that equality before the law is a pretty relative concept. Like they said in the Animal Farm, some animals are more equal than others.
Many protocols/networks ( ed2k, kazaa, bittorrent, gnutella, freenet ) satisfy some of these requirements but not all of them. I believe with all these BT sites getting shut down and banned, its a ripe time for another disruptive technology in the area of p2p file distribution to take hold.
New meaning for spontaneous? Perhaps the different spelling has a different meaning? :)