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Comment by oytis | Hacker News Reader

I dunno man, people are complaining about not being able to secure a vocational training position, especially as a foreigner. Maybe a bit of diversity and equality could help

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A friend of mine went to Berlin to learn German. She's Spanish of Moroccan Berber origin... She said she encountered barely any native speakers, and many people tried to speak English to her instead. She ended up quitting as a result. I was in part of suburban Frankfurt am Main and had a similar experience. So depending on where you are, there is plenty of diversity. Like most larger European cities, Frankfurt and Berlin now lack sense of place while having a sense of anomie.

> she encountered barely any native speakers, and many people tried to speak English to her instead

Germans often switch to English when they hear an accent or hesitation

I can confirm, that does make it pretty hard to learn if you’re in a large city where people generally speak fluent English

As I say above, I've used various tricks. Pretending to be Finnish. Putting on a very strong Scottish accent when they speak English to me. All that kind of thing.

You just continue speaking German to them until they give up.

You could be round all day trying to do that. Much easier to pretend you don't speak English.

Yep!

I know they do and if you're trying to learn German, it's not great. But foreign residents in Germany often default to English when dealing with each other.

Depends on background I think. Educated foreigners will default to English, worker class would most likely speak German

Plenty of foreign workers default to broken English I notice, even among each other (if their native languages are different). This situation occurs more frequently in the Nordic countries and the Netherlands.

Berlin and Frankfurt are the most international places in Germany. It’s like going to Zurich and Geneva and saying that people speak English. If you step outside of those 2 places you will face german more often.

Though I really doubt your anecdotes, I lived in Berlin for years as a non-German speaker, you have a lot of native speakers all around, you often do not notice when you’re not integrated but once you start following native Germans they bring you to groups and places where the language is way more common.

"International" is one way to put it, "anomie" is another. You could be anywhere and they're not better for it. My home town is going the same way. Lots of atomised individuals and less connection and bland architecture.

Last time I was in Berlin, I had to pretend to be Finnish to avoid speaking English and practice my German. That guy was a native German speaker. But I came across plenty of people who did not speak good German but were local residents. So I don't disbelieve her. I spent time in Dresden years ago, and it was easy for me to find Germans to speak with (nowadays, I think that may be different as youngsters are all drilled in American English.) Sächsisch is a somewhat strange accent, but at least it is a native dialect. I already know someone else's broken German, I'm not trying to learn their broken German.

I think the time to be in Berlin was the eighties and nineties. Even 1980s era East Berlin appears to have had some appeal (according to East Germans I've interacted with, despite issues with the Stasi.) Outside of the touristy parts, the modern suburbs are fast evolving into just another global city with non-descript glass and steel cylinders filled with junk food outlets and Air BnB. (Not that East German era architecture is that distinctive either.)

Another trick I've learnt sometimes is to drop into a broad Scottish accent so they cannot understand what I am saying in English. But my German is extremely rusty nowadays.

Migrants to Germany account for 30.2% of the total population.

Is Germany not enough diverse for you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany

Yes, sorry, there is a lot of diversity of course, especially on the lower level. It's rather equality and inclusion that need improving.

It's an anecdotal evidence, but while looking for a job I liked looking up employees on linkedin, then looking up the leadership on company's website. First one would always be much more diverse than the second one

You didn't notice older people are Germans and younger migrants?

The Germans themselves chose not to have children.

I think they were pushed not to have children, if that matters. Pushed via economical measures that made it very hard and pushed via education/indoctrination that kids are bad in multiple ways.

My grandparents had many brothers and sisters each and life was harder back then, but it was easier to raise a large family than today. What changed? Taxes, with direct and indirect effects.

> What changed?

Contraception. Children weren't optional back then, they just happened naturally.

Wait until you learn you can be German and not look like the Bavarian stereotypes

From your own link 30% is the widest definition possible:

> As of 2024, around 17.4 million people living in Germany, or 20.9% of the population, are first-generation immigrants, while the population with a migrant background in the wider sense stood at approximately 25.2 million, accounting for 30.2% of the total population of 83.5 million

Thats a very misleading statistic

"Migrant background" is really broad indeed, it takes just one parent who wasn't born with a German parent to be considered as having a "background". Also most of them are EU migrants

who wasn't born with a German passport, sorry. So in worst case one immigrant grandparent is enough

What exactly is misleading to you?

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