Hacker News Reader

Comment by delichon | Hacker News Reader

> Ryobi handles DIY at Home Depot. Milwaukee handles pros. The two brands don't eat each other. They serve different people at different price points with different expectations

So market fit is driving both worse and better products at the same time. Cheap DIYers like me are buying the cheapest stuff we can find, and complaining that it's as cheap as its price. My neighbor the contractor buys the expensive stuff and finds that the quality at least somewhat reflects that.

Worse on purpose is my fault, because I'm the guy who bought a cheap Ryobi saw, instead of none at all. Plane flights are worse because I'm the guy who buys the cheapest ticket and tolerates the resulting discomforts, instead of staying home. You can see that through the lens of greed and exploitation, or as just a market evolving to supply consumer demand.

View on HN

I don't think there's anything to apologize for.

Buying a professional tool with tens of thousands of hours of potential runtime and 1000lb+ of torque is wasteful.

A Ryobi tool will realistically last for the many decades you need it for and do everything you ask of it.

Lower price points doesn't just mean something is junk. It can also be engineering efficiency.

> A Ryobi tool will realistically last for the many decades you need it for and do everything you ask of it

Until you buy one of their lawn mowers and the SLA batteries die after a year...

you can cherrypick similar stories from any company

What year? I got one like 5(?) years ago and it was lithium.

Definitely doesn't run as long as when it was new but does enough.

For those of you getting a lawn mower, don't get the cheapest one you can. A 13" wide blade is uh gunna take nearly double the passes a 20" wide blade will.

I got the 13” for my postage stamp lawn and it works great. 27 pounds! But I get your point on moving time.

What are the price points though? Maybe I lucked into a sale, but when I was looking at drills, all the prices were similar. Maybe Bosch was the (expensive) outlier...

As the saying goes, anyone can build a bridge that lasts forever. It takes an engineer to build one that lasts fifty years.

Excellent, I love it!

It remind me of the quote from Blaise Pascale:

"I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time."

— source: https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2014/02/03/270680304/this-...

The idea that you need expertise and experience to produce something efficient and refined that fit perfectly the need that it fulfills.

I think the normal saying is "Anyone can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands."

Building a forever bridge would be challenging, especially for 5bn yrs in when the sun expands.

dont worry, this is the justifications billionairs have in ignoring modern social problems. thanks elon.

djoser's pyramid has cedar beams that still support the roof of an inner chamber, truely massive, and at something like 4000 years old are past waranty, making the few that have failed free of liability concerns, but less than 100 years later the eygyptians had shifted to all stone roofs for inner chambers in there built to last projects. The techniques and tools were used for millenia prior to the construction of the pyramids, and have been in continious use and production from those times till now.

Are new ryobi batteries still compatible with all their old tools? I remember it used to be a big selling point that that they never changed their battery system.

Yes and IMO one of the selling points. They have upgraded the batteries over the years but still base compatibility

Ryobi make mostly good tools though. The results produced by most Ryobi users, myself included, are limited by user skill not tool quality.

If you are a DIY, you might use a tool once a week, or once a year. A pro might use a tool everyday, all day.

A different durability requirement.

A Ryobi is not bad, if it fills your needs, but might not be enough for heavy use.

Which is market segmentation at work. If the DIYers get good enough tools at cheap prices and the pros have a separate line that’s more expensive and more durable, what are we supposed to be mad about?

There was an article [1] from the same site about backpacks here couple of weeks ago, with better articulated position by the author: he is mad about market segmentation and believes there should not be different grades of products from the same company. I.e. someone who swings by Walmart to get a cheap backpack to walk some green belt trails should get the backpack capable to last 20 years of climbing Everest and hiking through Darien Gap if the company has such backpacks sold elsewhere.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47777209

If you buy their brushless line, you can add a few decent tools to your lineup while using the cheap stuff for everything else. Same battery platform generally. I have a lot of their cheap stuff, plus a few good ones that see more use.

You can buy or make adapters so there is no battery platforms. If we had a functioning FTC there would be no battery platform.

Didn't realize adapters were common! I agree on the FTC / standardization point.

I have many cheap ryobi niche tools, but use Makita batteries in them.

That would suck, because even the same company might have 2 or more different battery platforms. I, for one, have Milwaukee tools from both M12 and M18 platforms. They are for different applications and I specifically bought some M12 tools because their M18 equivalent was too big for my applications, and, on the other hand, I bought some tools in M18 because their M12 counterparts were underpowered for my applications. Imagine running a driver to assemble your PC and an SDS MAX hammer off the same battery?

There has generally been a grade below Ryobi that is junk. Been that way for decades before Ryobi even existed. Ryobi isn't the best quality, but it is generally good enough and cheaper.

That tier is Harbor Freight, I believe.

Their tools work, but that's different from being good, in comparison to others. They feel and sound terrible and don't perform well at all. If you buy any other brand than Ryobi, you will immediately go "oh, this is clearly better". It's like they designed Ryobi to be as bad as possible without being defective, so that you can't complain about it, but have a great reason to buy Ridgid or Milwaukee.

Great tools really. I wish they'd bite the bullet and change the battery. Make adapters or have a trade in program. I know that's their schtick, but it's time.

I love my Ryobi drill. Bought a set ~10 years ago and it’s still going strong. I charge the battery once every 3 to 4 years. Used it to assemble a bunch of furniture just this weekend. Some of the screw heads are getting a little worn from me being an idiot, but so far haven’t had to replace anything and never needed any more parts than came with the initial beginner set (1 hand drill for screwing, 1 strong drill for drilling, 2 boxes of screw and drill attachments)

A more expensive “proper” set would be completely wasted on me.

What are my options if I'm one of the unwashed massed that aren't able to afford anything but Ryobi/Spirit (RIP)?

What if I'm a professional who needs to use Milwuake/American Airlines if I plan to get my work done?

These feel like choices in the same way you can choose to pay your extortion fee to the mob or choose to pay your taxes.

I own some Ryobi and Harbor Freight tools as well as some Milwaukee and SnapOn.

I don’t see it as a problem that tools of different quality, specifications, and price are available in the market.

I wouldn’t want there to be only select 80% ground beef nor only A5 Wagyu beef for sale. Both have their place.

Who's breaking down your door with muscle to make you pay for Ryobi?

The Home Despot

Reply on news.ycombinator.com