Sailfish OS | Hacker News Reader

Sailfish OS

thenextweb.com

60 pointsmarkprovan35 comments

Shit that looks cool. Like Metro without all the ugly frumpy bits. Very sleek and futuristic, like the whole interface is sliding on sheets of tinted glass.

Actually more like MeeGo Harmattan + BB10. Love the interface.

Yet another re-skinned Linux, if you dig far enough.

As Stallman is fond of (rightly) remarking: Linux is not an operating system.

I wonder if this (if it will ever be released as Free software), Unity, some other Gnome or Plasma Active/mobile will be the first real alternative to Linux/Android...

I'd love to have something with Linux+Android hw support and powersavings, but with at different software stack on top of the kernel...

> As Stallman is fond of (rightly) remarking: Linux is not an operating system.

"Linux" is commonly used as a brand for the ecosystem of bits, media, and community around the kernel. It makes sense as a default meaning, so that's how most people use it.

Sure, but those people should learn how to say it properly.

Fortunately, Linus won't insult me for preferring a different pronunciation. I'll use his pronunciation if I ever have the opportunity to speak to (or around) him.

Iirc, Linus doesn't care about calling it Linux v GNU/Linux

That's the joke. Stallman acolytes tut-tut any usage of "Linux" that isn't referring to the kernel. The rest of the world happily uses the term for all contexts with no confusion. In fact, talking about the kernel is the only time it could be confusing. We have "Linux kernel" for that lone source of confusion.

The Linux kernel is at the center of the Linux ecosystem. The Linux ecosystem has many Linux distributions based on the Linux kernel. Words are flexible, and language has tools to deal with confusion.

  > The Linux ecosystem has many Linux distributions based on the Linux kernel.

There are many operating system distributions that run the Linux kernel. But something like Debian/kFreebsd or illumos are in many ways quite similar to other distributions like Ubuntu -- without running on Linux.

The Linux kernel is a tremendously important piece of the Free software world we live in -- but it isn't a userland -- and I don't understand why people that actually understand the difference gets so worked up about it.

The GNU userland is important. The Gnome project is important. Xorg is important. The Apache foundation software is important. I don't see why people insist on labelling these things "Linux".

The GNU name actually makes sense: GNU's not unix. But it's close. You can compile GNU software and run it on Microsoft Windows. Or under OS X. GNU is a platform. Sort of.

"GNU/Linux" is clunky. And I'm badgered with it any time I use the much less clunky "Linux." The people pushing the RMS-approved term hardest have no concept of presentation, and it turns people off of listening. I would be instantly associated with the worst pushers of the term if I started using it, so it's a nonstarter.

Edit: GNU would get more attention if the FSF partnered with major Linux distribution vendors to give GNU a prominent placement in installers, documentation, and marketing. RMS peeing a line at the unmarketable "GNU/Linux" is only going to alienate people.

Debian

I meant an actual partnership, with co-branding and everything. A mention of GNU buried in a page most people aren't going to look at won't have the desired effect. Look at the website for any convention and you'll see what I mean. For example: http://www.e3expo.com/splash/

And hopefully it'll work better than this: http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/29/linux-car-first-to-crash-...

So by that reasoning, we should call it Linux when it runs an Android or Sailfish userland as well? Or does Android "make more sense" because it has stronger branding? Is it still Android if it's a fork?

GNU runs fine on top of Solaris, freebsd and to a certain extent (certain definitions of fine :) Microsoft Windows and OS X.

Linux runs fine without GNU (as eg: "Android").

I understand that for a lot of people the distinction seems trivial -- I guess I appreciate the GNU part a lot more after being exposed to Solaris 8 and ancient *BSD installs.

So we should be talking about GNU/Linux and Android/Linux?

Linux is just the kernel.

The same as with WebOS or Android.

Any of these OS can decide tomorrow to change to another kernel, and Linux is history in the mobile space.

If this ever would make sense this is another question.

Any of these OS can decide tomorrow to change to another kernel, and Linux is history in the mobile space.

Sure, they could do that. Oops, there goes all those drivers. Hey, what happened to that port to X architecture? What do you mean only Linux and NetBSD run on it?

Hence my remark of that would make sense, but strange are the ways of upper management...

That's one of it's main selling points. Your point being?

Don't call it "a new OS" if it's really just a bunch of programs running on Linux. Maybe I'm research-biased, but the OS is the kernel, and whatever userspace you put on top is gravy.

That's pretty unconventional definition of OS.

More outdated than unconventional.

So OS X is really just a skinned FreeBSD?

No, it's a Mach microkernel (except it's not because they shoved some non-microkernel stuff in) with a BSD userland, and a NextSTEP GUI/framework on top.

As I understand it, the kernel is pretty much a hybrid of Mach and FreeBSD, and I don't think you can really say that it's more of one than the other: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU

There's definitely more BSD in there than just the userland.

I like the idea of gestures driving the UI, but the demo video seemed a little unintuitive.

"a little"? You are being generous there :)

Strange that they (for now) keep the UI closed source. Still, as far as I can figure out the kernel (Linux) and the OS core (Mere[1]) is Free software.

[1] http://merproject.org/

What's strange about keeping the UI source closed?

Keeping it open would be one way to differentiate against iOS and Windows Mobile? And I can't see what they gain from keeping it closed, really. Perhaps it is fear of fragmentation ?

Hmmm.. The details are scarce, but I think the standard Sailfish OS will be based around those UI concepts which were presented in the video. I'd go as far as to say that this is the unstyled 'vanilla Sailfish', and Jolla will actually re-skin it to go with their own devices (later next year). And expect everyone else to skin it for their purposes. The overall UI mechanics seem to be nice, but style choices are not that great in the shown video IMO.

This video of a hands on demonstration looks very confusing... http://youtu.be/_c_BqnR_vAM

Is there really room for yet another mobile operating system ?

Indeed, and some choices seem to follow the logic "just because we can" rather than usability concerns. And the lag. Guys, if you want just a little hope of success take care of the lag first. It is noticeable despite the guy doing the best to be very careful, so my guess is in normal usage the lack of responsiveness would be infuriating.

How long until I can get my hands on that and load it in my Transformer Prime?

Looks interesting, but using Helvetica Nueue Light/Extra Light for headers was a poor accessibility choice.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com