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Comment by jsoaoxhd | Hacker News Reader

The solution is obvious. Teaching must be no-tech—just go back to 1950s.

The other problem of course is attention span due to social-media erosion.

The big tech has really done a number on society already and they’re just getting started.

I agree with you that no-tech parts of universities would work - obviously you can't avoid tech when teaching some things like coding, but mostly I think it would be a good idea.

There are problems: Having students attend lectures is great but they have to work with the material and prove they understand it - how to do that without homework? I'm sure there are ways. Have them work in a building full of computers cut-off from the internet maybe, but how to keep them from using their phones?

Another option is just severe comprehensive testing in heavily inviglated rooms long after they finished the class involving the material to prove they know it. Perhaps you could do this for the first few years of knowledge in a discipline and then assume the student actually is serious and take the leash off after they passed the tests. I know some disciplines already do this kind of thing, even before AI. Basically everyone has to pass a bar-exam type thing, even if they're studying art - but things like art can't really be condensed into an exam and it would certainly restrict and narrow what can be taught and learned, that's a big problem in my mind. Also what if there are new ideas in the study of physics and they can't really be taught because the exam is too difficult to change quickly? What if there's a big split in the philosophy of buisness, but the exam only asks about one side of the split? What if you have an ingenious professor who wishes to talk about a new branch of philosophy he's created - not on the exam though.

Edit: I guess if professors designed their own exams, instead of some distant exam-comittee it would alleviate most of my concerns about them.

> ...how to do that without homework?

Tests. Many of my university courses only graded on tests. They strongly encouraged you to do the homework to better understand the material, but didn't consider homework completion when calculating your grade.

Consider that universities are educating adults who are -often- paying to be there. If we assume competent course design and instruction, if an adult chooses to not work on the material until they understand it, then the only person they're harming is themselves... which -as an adult- is a thing that they're usually fully entitled to do.

I liked the classes I had with a "reverse" format: the "homework" was done in-class, checked for correctness but not part of the grade, and the lecture was a recording watched at home.

Huh. I never took a class like that, but that seems like a great idea.

That's the first I've heard of that format. I'm not sure what I think of it.

I think that watching the lecture (rather than reading a faithful transcription and referring to the video or photographs for the parts that require visual aids) would absolutely have destroyed me, but I'm not sure.

For coding you can actually teach students on commodore 64s. It’s actually better because they have a BASIC shell and assembly language. Most importantly, no internet. :)

Actually, give them internet why not. But they have to use a 56k modem. Mwhaaha

I would actually love taking a class like that.

but how would you do that? what about homework and coursework? students will just transcribe claude slop on paper and submit that.

Requiring them to write it in longhand at least removes the instant gratification. I think that will work for some students.

It would be fun trying to draw all those emojis in longhand. You could probably do the bullet points as tiny manicules.

Oh how I hated having to write in longhand throughout my schooling. It was always so slow and painful no matter what I tried in terms of pens or techniques. Typing is much faster and more fluent. In the real world no one writes longhand any more: it's all keyboards, swiping, and dictation.

I dunno think outside the box.

One option… They can do homework just test them every week in class. Homework doesn’t count for grade anymore. But test questions based upon homework.

Another… kids do reading at home in textbook, then work together in class to finish. Adjust hours accordingly.

There’s a very interesting problem space here though, to “disrupt” education by going back in time and applying a modern spin on education.

Assignments, sure. But if tests/exams are proctored in-person with pen and paper, the students may quickly pivot to traditional learning methods if they want to pass their courses.

In-person tests and workshops, including oral exams.

Like we'd been doing for literally hundreds of years.

You give exams in person, in class, on blue books, no phones. This part isn't hard. Instructors have been doing it for generations. It's only in the post COVID era that some have moved to having exams take home and on Canvas or similar platforms. This is great for instructors -- less work! but I am not convinced it actually helps students.

The part that is more difficult is take-home work, and I think the solution is that instead of being something that you turn in for credit, it needs to move to being more of a chance to practice for in-person exams.

What about essays? I've taught classes where students had to write essays in class, in person. On paper, with a pen (this may no longer be allowed on many campuses because of access and perceived fairness reasons, which IMO is a shame, but it is what it is). I think the traditional assignment of "write a 15 page paper on XYZ" is probably done. Instead students will have to prepare to write an essay in class by reading the source material (books, papers, etc) and converse with AIs that are hopefully not hallucinating, to get an understanding of the material and then come to class and be prepared to write about it.

It's a new world, but one we can adapt to.

It would actually be interesting to see what people do attempting to transcribe AI generated material to paper. At the very least it's another layer of learning in writing it out.

Engineering at my EU uni, homework and coursework were at most a tiny part of the total grade, and never enough on their own to pass. If they were relatively bigger projects, you'll pass an interview or similar review after delivering it. This all were just nudges study and to check ourselves and they were seen as a "gift" of the Bologne Process (restructuring/standardizing of unis in the EU).

The only thing that mattered were the exams, be it pen and paper or coding/electronics labs, in person and proctored. No matter how much slop I could have access to back in the day I would have failed the same subjects I did.

I thought it was widely agreed that most homework was literal busywork

Do it on the classroom or it doesn't count

Funnily enough, it's homework that is supposed to teach the ability to do hard and boring mental work for long periods. There's not enough time or peace to do that in class. And if you don't learn how to work hard, you don't learn how to learn. A lot of people learn that the hard way by flying through the easy school years and then hitting a hard wall when university level assignments can't be just winged without hard studying.

(Or at least they used to.)

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