Comment by Litost | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Litost | Hacker News Reader

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Much as I love Glastonbury festival, even though I stopped going a few years back, the amount of waste generated definitely seems problematic. I think the festival does a great job of trying to deal with this problem, from the large number of lovingly decorated bins, through to all the site clearup teams both during and after and all the messaging.

But as highlighted elsewhere, it's definitely more of a cultural problem than anything. It's always depressing just casually observing the amount of abandoned tents on the way out and the amount of litter either put in the wrong recycling bins or just discarded less than yards from them. And the problems isn't just the cost which could be spent on good causes - £750,000+ [0] but the accidental effect of say a cow eating a tent peg (it's a working farm).

As someone who litter picks and talks to litter picking groups it's definitely a big problem nationwide sadly.

Probably unsurprisngly this always seems to be much worse in the higher traffic areas with the main stages than it is in say the Green or Healing field areas though their might be demographic and contextual reasons for that also. I've not been to any of the other main UK festivals in a long time, e.g. Reading, V Festival etc. but I'm guessing they aren't going to be any better?

[0] - https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/whats-on/music-nightlife/glas...

> It's always depressing just casually observing the amount of abandoned tents on the way out

Not just tents, but all sorts of camping gear, carts, clothes, food, gimmics, and so on. Many in good condition. Aside from the waste having to be cleared, it's very wasteful to throw away good stuff.

I am convinced this is a cultural problem indeed. Stuff like a tent or a gas-burner is cheap. Cheap compared to what it cost (in % of monthly income) decades ago, and cheap compared to the ticket and other spendings on that festival.

The cost of a tent (or the costs of some cans of food, some shirts, a funny hat, an inflatable flamingo, a chair) is nothing on the total bill of a festival. That new tent you bought, costs about as much as that beer you spilled when you bumped into that drunk dude.

So, purely economically, it makes sense to just leave it behind. Why carry your (now dirty) tent, food, cloths, etc home, when you can leave it, have a more pleasant return trip, and just buy new stuff next year.

I think this is a very good analogy for why we are unable to stop ruining the world in an ever increasing pace.

Sometimes, leaving the tent may turn out to be cheaper than bring it back home. A cheap tent may be cheaper than the extra luggage fee or mailing it back home.

I once paid 40 euros to get back my 70 euro tent. If I had a 30 euro tent (the cheapest tent they sold), it wouldn't have made sense, economically.

TBC, my point wasn't that such economic reasoning is "wrong" or a problem.

It was that our economics are flawed.

In your example, the issue is quite clear: costs are externalized. The cost to remove your tent is externalized by the festival across all visitors: guest who clean up after themselves, pay for guests that pollute. via increased ticket costs.

And the costs of pollution, emissions, etc are not in the price of the tent, they are for a large part shifted to future generations and for a smaller part paid by Chinese and European tax payers, etc.

A "pure", "capitalist" economy would make the buyer of that tent pay for all of that. In which case a tent is so expensive, you'll gladly pay an extra €40. And in which case repairability durability or sustainability decrease the price: a throwaway will cost more in the shop than one that'll last decades.

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