What British people mean when they say 'sorry'
bbc.com
bbc.com
An example. One day I was on the tube. My bag was on the seat next to me. A bloke gets on, points at my bag and says “sorry”.
What he actually meant, was “move your bag”.
The thing is, if he had said something so direct, I would have said “sorry, what did you say to me?”
And on and on…
Highly abbreviated exchange combined with a gesture.
Sorry (heh), but it could easily be a sarcastic use (#4), not apologetic (#3) and not softening (#5). Not even tone can always differentiate between the apologetic "I'm sorry to bother you" and the non-apologetic "I'm sorry that your parents failed in raising you". They could be asking you for a favour, but they could just as easily be calling you inconsiderate of others because seats are for people not bags.
Mentioning it because I'm actually slightly surprised to see the "sorry, what did you say" usage here and in the article because it seems so pedestrian
It can be used to excuse not hearing something, to get someone to repeat something preposterous or to generally reply to something shocking without actually expecting the other person to reiterate.
I hear it most days in corporate tech.....
When I see it in writing, I too for some reason picture an angry posh British man who is about to demand satisfaction.
It’s getting quite serious if you have to whip that one out
Presumably you also said sorry in return?
E.g. when someone calls in on behalf of her spouse saying he's gone digging potatoes.
Just like togs, which I've never heard anybody say here though I've read that parts of Ireland still use it.
Same goes for "gutties" - rubber-soled shoes to wear in the gym (presumably from gutta-percha).
I think "bloke" was more common in the 90s over here. It picked up an association with boorishness, especially when used as an adjective - "blokey" was almost the middle-aged equivalent of "laddish".
Then I had a long relationship with an ethnically Dutch person but culturally a Londoner (she grew up there) and also learned there is “I am sorry for your pain and wish I could take it away” (this implies though they probably would do it again because they are not sorry for their actions).
It was maddening at first but now I am used to it. I only do this in English though. In Dutch it’s almost like I physically can’t. It feels wrong to use it that way, almost unethical even.
But maybe that’s a me thing.
Scottish n ASD here, I've come to use the above (or just "I'm sad that..", maybe "conflicted" sometimes)
to those who use "sorry" to me, the ambiguity of the overloaded meaning leads me usually to say "no need to apologise, though I do appreciate the sentiment!"
But for a more distant example of the "I'm about to inconvenience you" usage being normal - isn't the Japanese "sumimasen" used almost exactly the same as these?
There's also ごめん下さい "gomen kudasai" (literally "please forgive me") which is used as a greeting when visiting someone's house unexpectedly. And どうもすみません "domo sumimasen" (literally "thanks excuse me/I'm sorry") when accepting someone's offer to help with something.
None of these necessarily imply the speaker has actually done something wrong or wouldn't do the same again.
You’d be surprised. The culture of kidzukai has two core tenets: (1) You must anticipate and cater to the other person’s every need and whim. If you fail you must apologize. (2) You must not allow the other person to do (1) for you instead of you doing it for them. If you fail you must apologize.
This means that every interaction between people who are even slightly close to each other in the social hierarchy is 3D chess which always ends in one or both of you apologizing to the other.
p.s. Gomen kudasai is “please permit me” to enter your house, not really an apology like gomen nasai.
In the anglosphere maybe, but outside of that it seems to not be. My girlfriend is from SE Asia and her language's equivalent is evidently used exclusively to apologize for having wronged someone. I've had to explain my usage of "I'm sorry that [bad thing happened]" or "Sorry, but can I just [very minorly inconvenience you]" because she didn't understand what I was admitting fault for.
In her language I believe they use different politeness markers for these situations (they have an "excuse me" equivalent), but I'm not proficient enough to know them well.
"Sorry" is most commonly translated as "xin lỗi" which literally means something like "request forgiveness". It's connected exclusively to the notion of fault, not sadness. The real issue is that sorry <-> xin lỗi is a ubiquitous but poor translation, because the meaning of xin lỗi is much more specific than sorry.
Not all Germans do it, but I'd say a fair share. I think, because the German "Entschuldigung" is four syllables long :D But that would work the same way and for example in the pub situations you can shout it much better: "Ent-shool-dee-goong?"
I wasn't aware this is something that doesn't work in all English-speaking countries. I may have overused the equivalent of the word in other languages, too. Scusi about that.
In a lift in Germany a lady tried on friends foot - friend said "sorry".
The other lady said "Well, you shouldn't have been standing there".
> "Good Morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out further than the brim of his shady hat.
> "What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"
> "All of them at once," said Bilbo. "And a very fine morning for a pipe of tobacco out of doors, into the bargain.
That's all it means. Excuse my impertinence, presence, gaul, mere existence; I need your attention. Many languages have this overloaded phrase and use it just as a Brit would "sorry". It's formal deference. It's polite.
And it's not like we don't also shout "Oi!" when we need to determine whether or not some brigand possesses a licence for whatever it is they're doing.
On the other hand, I hadn’t heard sandgroper before and had to search to find out it meant Western Australian. Although, I definitely don’t get out much.
Helpful off-topic instructional video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWv3L6J1YVE
But saying sorry as a pre-emptive "oops didn't mean to step in front of you, mate" (when the other person had clearly walked into you), that has existed in Perth as long as I can remember.
"Oop, sorry" was viscerally familiar to me
Of course this being Britain, the tone used could make this mean the opposite.
It is really rude to step underneath other people. Or to lay underneath other people. No wonder they appologized.
I had always considered myself considerate and not blocking people and following posted etiquette rules and staying out of the way and being courteous in traffic but it seems the way now is to just follow commands by strangers and accept their abuse because I’m racist/sexist/privileged/trash
Though, they don't mention the "I am sympathetic to your plight" version of sorry that seems to confound ppl a lot (which I also do)
So very Canada. Sorry!
For instance 'yeah' can mean 'yes, continue', agreement, skepticism, (sarcastic) disagreement, enthusiasm, etc.
The cultural difference is what word is most commonly used.
So it is a southern English habit, not a British one. The other parts of England are more direct, and will use more obvious phrasing. Similarly the other parts of Britain will be more direct.
Tracy Ullman doing Nicola Sturgeon and Mhari Black .... pure dead brilliant!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eV5TbEydy0
Glasgow! Pure Dead Brilliant!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwomQzigGuc
PdB C to PostScript compiler:
https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/ha0rz/britis...
e.g. "very interesting" -> "clearly nonsense"
Not similar to Amazon reviews Brits default to 1. So when it's a 5 it's particularly meaningful.
"absolutely fantastic" also works
Can The Family Have a Good Time Playing Sorry? | The Carol Burnett Show Clip
https://youtu.be/_uBib8TatmA?t=397
You should also wink after ringing the little bell.
English politeness is not necessarily a feature of our Celtic brother and sister's national character.
It's embarrassing and cringe-inducing to read that even one person--much less an entire culture -- feels more dignity getting beaten down and bullied by strangers or peers than confronting them openly or berating them publicl.
I think this speaks more to a culture of thinking of other peoples’ experiences/rights/feelings as well as their own.
Whenever I drive in the US I’m always staggered by just how selfish people are on the roads, for example. Is another car very clearly merging onto a highway where it would be easy to make enough room for them to merge? In the UK, 90% of the time the cars on the highway will make room. In the US I’ve literally never seen it happen.
I am not sure BE is a spacial case.
I think I kind of accepted that I don't have hardware acceleration for pleasantries and I only use them when there's something very clear I can gain from that, like at work. Otherwise I default to "Pass me the salt." like saying a command to a subordinate. "Can you pass me the salt?" is peak politeness for me.
BTW there's a fun story. Back at the university I had some shit course with another faculty, and one of exercises was spotting things on a recording. I mentioned a scene where women in a third-world country were receiving education and said "... because those chicks were getting educated" and one girl got upset "WHAT DID YOU SAY?!" while the other one got sad "nobody has ever called ME a chick!". Of course the interaction wasn't in English so that wasn't the exact word I used, but yeah.
I thought I was being pranked at first but then I learned that the exact same rule applies in certain "high establishments" in Geneva.
Another I don’t think was listed is a way to blunt an aggressive statement just in case there may be a misunderstanding.
“WTF did you just say to me?”
Might be “Sorry, but WTF did you just say to me?” would imply some anger that could lead to a fight but hey, sorry maybe I misheard you?
Which could funny enough lead to more sorries “oh, sorry I thought you said something else”.
I used to always put my bag next to me cause I don't want to sit next to someone (when I was a kid, it'd hurt me when I was solo sitting alone in whole bus, but I learned to embrace that instead). Nowadays, people just point at the bag, and during primetime it is just annoying having to ask (esp someone pretending to sleep, on phone, or lookibg outside) because yes we all don't like the bus is full, we all wanna get to work/home. So I learned to just start with my bag between my legs or on my lap instead. And, since the bag doesn't pay for a ticket, it has no right to a seat.
So in Borderlands 4, one of the voice lines by the Siren called Vex after a kill is 'sorry not sorry'. But given the CEO of that company is Texan, I couldn't pinpoint how rude (if any) that was. Not like they can hear you after a frag anyway.
Some British slang is just lovely. Such as smoking a fag. In that regard, too bad I don't smoke anymore.
But in the instance of sorry, I assumed it was American, since Brits would say 'excuse me'. Brits are, after all, very polite (I'm Dutch...)
Actually interesting I remember saying sorry in the sense of, "Can you repeat what you said?" and it annoyed one of my friends so much that she essentially trained me to say pardon instead because it was annoying her. Didn't realize it was part of my Canadian heritage.
This usually happens in my non-native languages (but not only), and especially for speakers with accents I'm not used to.
sorry that you're a cunt, now
1) get out of my way
2) speak up
3) get out of my fucking way
4) stop being a cunt for a bit (and get out of my way)
5) shut up
6) fuck off