Talking to strangers at the gym | Hacker News Reader

Talking to strangers at the gym

thienantran.com

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One of the things I like about this is that OP is giving people genuine compliments without any particular agenda.

It reminds me of one of my favorite parts of How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, where he tells a story about complimenting someone, and a student asks what he was hoping to gain from offering the compliment. Carnegie is incensed:

> I was waiting in line to register a letter in the Post Office at Thirty-Third Street and Eighth Avenue in New York. I noticed that the registry clerk was bored with his job[...] So while he was weighing my envelope, I remarked with enthusiasm: “I certainly wish I had your head of hair.”

> He looked up, half-startled, his face beaming with smiles. “Well, it isn’t as good as it used to be,” he said modestly. I assured him that although it might have lost some of its pristine glory, nevertheless it was still magnificent. He was immensely pleased. We carried on a pleasant little conversation, and the last thing he said to me was: “Many people have admired my hair.”

> I told this story once in public; and a man asked me afterwards: “What did you want to get out of him?”

> What was I trying to get out of him!!! What was I trying to get out of him!!!

> If we are so contemptibly selfish that we can’t radiate a little happiness and pass on a bit of honest appreciation without trying to screw something out of the other person in return—if our souls are no bigger than sour crab apples, we shall meet with the failure we so richly deserve.

> Oh yes, I did want something out of that chap. I wanted something priceless. And I got it. I got the feeling that I had done something for him without his being able to do anything whatever in return for me. That is a feeling that glows and sings in your memory long after the incident is passed.

I avoided this book for a long time. for some reason I got it in my head that it's a sort of red pilled book that teaches you how to manipulate people. I know it's very shallow on my side, but I somehow crystallized this opinion based on a few acquaintances that claimed to read it and instead that they include the name of a person they just met in every sentence because it made that person like them more.

Your comment made me consider reading it. This rant about radiating happiness towards people without expecting something in return gives me a different insight on his reasons for writing the book.

I might give it a shot. Thank you

> without any particular agenda.

This is a very important part of learning how to have real conversations with people.

There is too much bad advice about using tricks or hacks to try to start friendly conversations with people. It’s refreshing to see someone learning that a key to healthy conversation is having selfless motives.

Something surprising about How to Win Friends and Influence People is that it’s not as manipulative as the title suggests. A key theme of the book is that you need to be genuine in your interactions. You can’t pretend to be interested in what other people say, you have to actually approach the conversation with interest.

People will see through hidden agendas and ulterior motives. The bad social advice tries to use too many tricks and hacks to formulate a set of interactions that sound good when you’re reading about them but have the wrong effect when you go into the world and interact with other people with a hidden agenda.

This is why I caution against all of the conversation hacks that are recommended, like coming up with excuses to ask someone for a favor (that you don’t really need) as a way to get them into a conversation or pretending to be interested in their life story when you’re only interested in getting someone to talk to you. Others will recognize when there are hidden agendas. It doesn’t set you up for success.

Since everyone else is sharing their experiences with this book here is mine:

Reading this books was a huge turning point for me as someone with diagnosed mild Autism. I think a lot of the things in this books are fairly obvious to non neuro-divergent folks. But for me, it was like a manual on how to handle myself in social situations, a thing that was mysterious and frustrating to me before. I wouldn't say I am now some sort of socialite, but I am far from the days of being being excluded from basically every social group I attempted to be part of.

I always try to compliment people if I see they're taking a lot of pride in their work or something they're doing. I was at a conference where the staff each had a coffee/tea/sweets station to maintain. I noticed one woman cleaning and polishing and being super fastidious. I wanted to compliment her, but then I debated with myself if that would be patronizing somehow. Finally, I decided to tell her she had a very nice station, and she just beamed ear-to-ear in response.

„We use the unrevised edition because we believe the revised edition (the revisions were done by Carnegie’s relatives after his death) forcefully makes the language of the book gender neutral and politically correct and takes away from the originality of the work. They even went so far ahead as to make quotes from other people gender neutral and politically correct. Most of the revised editions available today do not include Parts 5 and 6. Even the included parts see many paragraphs and examples omitted. In many places, characters in examples who were male have been edited to be female. It appears that Carnegie’s relatives decided to heavily excise content and highhandedly edit the work to match their own sensibilities and what appears to the webmasters as a feminist agenda. The unrevised edition as on this website is complete without exclusions and edits. We believe this text written by Dale Carnegie himself while he was alive without the alterations made by his relatives after his death is more readable, complete, and enjoyable.“

How to Win Friends and Influence People: Unrevised Version

https://socialskillswisdom.com/

That book is very good. However, for some (including me at some point), it can be a bit advanced

I highly recommend the book The Charisma Myth, it covers a lot of the same topics, including very good exercises, to help understand and develop human interactions in general

Personally, it helped me be able to get into, the situations that the first book assumes the reader is already in, or comfortable with (like talking to strangers)

This seems to be a cultural problem to me.

There are societies where talking to strangers all over the place is normal, without any hidden agenda.

Or even dancing with random people at the club, many times never to be seen again. Just to give a more intim kind of example.

While in other cultures, seems that unless there is something to gain from the effort, people don't even try.

I read this book when I was 18 and took it to heart. I love complimenting people. Its such a joy.

> ... OP is giving people genuine compliments without any particular agenda.

It takes some effort to be good at doing this, if people aren't used to getting any kind of compliment then it can land as super awkward.

(hint: avoid commenting on peoples physical appearance directly, always clothing, or hair, make-up, jewellery/watches -- or ideally how they handle themselves)

The "trick" is confidence, knowing in yourself that you mean well and, if challenged doubling down with a broad genuine smile, don't try to half-ass the smile because it makes things awkward-er.

The other thing is that compliments can be broad, but criticisms have to be very specific.

Once you get the hang of it you can make peoples days genuinely better effortlessly, by just saying the positive thing that you're thinking.

"How are you today" → "Better, now you're here" -- Isn't cheesy, if you mean it.

I've never read that book -- no reason; just mostly prefer fiction, and never got around to it.

The funny thing is that I make a habit of doing what Carnegie describes here, and for the same reasons.

As I've gotten older -- I'm 56 -- I also realize I look like the archetypal middle-aged straight white dude, and my cohort doesn't have a GREAT reputation across the board, so I feel like I should be even MORE careful about the energy I put out into the world. And nothing lifts _my_ mood better than being nice to somebody else.

Ironically enough, Dale Carnegie's book is about as far as you can get from genuine human connections. The whole book is centred aruond an underlying desire to gain something from someone.

So good on you for finding that one genuine bit of interaction in the entire book.

> One of the things I like about this is that OP is giving people genuine compliments without any particular agenda.

IMHO that is as fake as a car salesman. Mature, cultured people will say thank you and think "what a nuisance". I prefer being open about my motives. Smart people appreciate truth over compliments. And if the dumb/immature get offended, good riddance.

I used to be a big fan of HtWFaIP, but eventually I realized it's not healthy.

Find the Leary Wheel somewhere. People have referred to the Hypernormal / Overconventional slices as the "Dale Carnegie Quadrant".

Oh nevermind. Let's see what this attracts: http://athena.m3047.net/pub/fwm/leary-wheel.png

Are the examples so outdated? I see multiples comments/reviews (here and on the Internet) about the book not being made for modern people/society, but what you pasted looks fine to me.

Sure, there may be cultures where making comments of people out of the blue might not be seen as normal, but almost everywhere I've gone in this world allows for comments like these.

Complimenting people was my college party trick. I'd be a little inebriated and I'd just compliment people/say friendly vibey things. "That's a cool hat" or "that song is awesome" or "where did you get that??"

Ok yes, pushing positivity into the universe is better than pushing nothing or negativity.

But there are people who will flatter purely for gain. I think being aware of which is which is very useful.

Also who is giving the compliment will factor into how I receive it.

Wow - this is the complete opposite tone I had expected from this book, given the title.

One of the things I like about this is that OP is giving people genuine compliments without any particular agenda.

Wanting that priceless glowing and singing feeling is an agenda.

Interesting when I read the book I wanted to rename it to "How to win fake friends and manipulate people." Maybe I missed the humble passages.

Excellent passage.

As a society, we have a certain tendency to feel sorry for ourselves. If we have “social anxiety”, we like to give it a quasi-medical diagnosis. We rarely suspect that we may actually have something bad in our intentions. Many forms of anxiety are actually rooted in impure motives, especially when there is another part of us that conflicts with that motive. The conflict may result from a shred of conscience that enters into a tug-of-war with our impure motives. It could be rooted in a cognitive denial of those motives, as denial of truth can manifest in subconscious turbulence and nervous expressions of emotional energy. Perhaps we want to indulge those impure motives, but lack the chutzpah to do so, creating internal tension (the chutzpah would produce its own psychic anguish). Perhaps we’re selfish, but fail to recognize it. These sorts of things cause turmoil in the soul that can create anxiety.

Think of the “nice guy”. “Nice Guys” are some of the biggest assholes around. They’re two-faced schemers. A “Nice Guy’s niceness” is instrumental; he will be “nice” to a woman he finds attractive, because he has already imagined in his head that this will ingratiate him with her. He has already created a ledger in his mind: “if I am nice to this woman, then she is in my debt and now owes me the desired approval in return”. But the moment this woman fails to conform to the expectations of this “Nice Guy” is the moment his comes for his pound of flesh. You see the mask drop and his nastiness surface. The anxiety is rooted, among other things, in a failure to recognize the humanity and rights of this woman. For him, her meaning and her being are totally exhausted by his sexual desire, perhaps because he sees his own meaning exhausted by her approval, hence the apparent magnitude and terrific importance of her judgement. He wants to dominate by force or by manipulation rather than allow a woman to choose to surrender voluntarily, because she has determined this is good.

Magnanimity is one of the high virtues of classical virtue ethics - a sort of crowning culmination of them - and one of the features of magnanimous people is that they are at ease around others. It is well worth returning to this virtue ethics, because it does enlighten us about the nature of moral excellence.

Love is willing the genuine good of the other, unselfishly. There is no fear in someone of perfect love.

Unwarranted compliments is my biggest red flag.

Around 15 years ago I took on the challenge to start a conversation with random people to break through this barrier and train this muscle. What I started with was to chit chat with those I had already established an interaction. For example at the Starbucks I would say something to barista. Those interactions were short but broke the ice.

Later I went for random people in the street and that was quite awkward. There was simply not much I could work with (what I thought at the time).

This turned out to become a low stake effort to improve my social anxiety. Helped me build humour around it and eventually become comfortable

Fast forward to today, I can literally talk about anything to anyone. The main pattern I follow is to break the pattern and make a joke, be sarcastic respectfully or give a compliment. No permission just something they don't expect. Almost works all the time. It helps with confidence and also makes you realise its all in your head.

And it is fun indeed

I'm not saying this is you, but i've also ran into a lot of those people, almost always men, often in their late 30s or 40s, going around talking to everyone cracking jokes and thinking they're the live of the party, while everyone else is just silently annoyed by them.

This is such good advice! The expectation at Starbucks is that the exchange with the barista is super short anyway so you really can’t go wrong. Instead of saying “I’ll have the Danish”, try to turn it into a two-sentence exchange initially (eventually you shoot for a 3 sentence exchange with any stranger you interact with), say “which do you think is better, the danish or the croissant”?

Being able and willing to talk to strangers unlocks the eventuality that you will one day start chatting with a person who also does that and it will be like the small talk singularity. Once a man approached me and complemented my bicycle, and I engaged with him, and since we were both waiting at the same breakfast counter without anyone else, we sat down at a table and had breakfast together, and an hour later I could have counted him as a friend. Uncommon, but exhilarating possibility.

> Fast forward to today, I can literally talk about anything to anyone.

Try me!

Though it is a social skill indeed. But there are some people who are always weird, so I don't buy into the "I can talk to anyone" claim.

For me it is easiest to talk to people who are like the dude in the big lebowski. People who rarely upset about anything. The true hipsters.

> The main pattern I follow is to break the pattern and make a joke, be sarcastic respectfully or give a compliment

I'm having to learn this about online dating too. My online dates traditionally don't go anywhere because typically they've been about just exchanging information, which is frankly boring to both parties.

You have to (gently) riff and tease a bit or it's not going to go anywhere. If you're talking about your jobs, nothing is going to happen. Establishing that rapport is everything.

> There was simply not much I could work with (what I thought at the time).

This has been my big blocker keeping me from talking to most people. I feel quite adept socially once I get going, but I can usually only get to that point through mutual interests or a solid conversation topic to kick off from.

I seem to usually psyche myself out because most starters feels too fake or unsubstantive. Compliments make sense, but could you elaborate on "break the pattern and make a joke, be sarcastic respectfully"?

I had a similar challenge but more dating oriented (not fully though). I'm not at your level, but I want to be. Happily married nowadays, so it'd be a pure social challenge this time.

As a stranger - its also super annoying when random people want to talk to you.

Why do people think that intruding into somebody's personal space is OK.

I have found three strange and unexpected avenues for interacting with people.

1. Be on a quest. Yes a quest. I was trying to buy an old metal key as a gift for a friend. I wanted to find someone who sold sheep's milk (for making cheese). If you are on a quest it gives a context for an interaction. You both have something to talk about and it you both have an out: the answer. People almost always help you with a quest. And this ties with #2

2. Need help. I am lost. I am trying to get to the airport and I don't have much money. I trying to find a good book store. My car won't start. etc. I don't speak English.

3. Humor. Not telling jokes, just have a sense of humor about yourself, your common situation, the world in general.

I especially like being on a quest. Once I asked someone about the key, they sent me another place, they sent me another place and finally I found one. It was a blast. Everyone was helpful. I ended up telling people how I got there, why I was searching etc.

> 1. Be on a quest. Yes a quest.

This is unbelievably true.

I did a scavenger hunt (challenge hunt?) in Seattle (hosted by a friend of a friend). Many of the challenges involved interacting with other humans (dance with a stranger, buy someone you don't know a shot, give someone you don't know a rose, etc)

It was so fun. I've never met so many people before. But it struck me how excited everyone was to help out on my quest. Eager, even. I was so nervous to talk to people, but suddenly, having a sheet of paper gave me super powers.

Highly recommend having a quest. People love a quest.

I've seen this a lot with travel youtubers where they want to show genuine interaction with the population rather than generic tourist stuff. So they set arbitrary restrictions like not using maps, or avoiding PT and trying to hitchhike to destinations. Pretty much everyone everywhere is willing to help how they can and have a conversation in the meantime.

Having some obvious goal like "I'm a tourist and I'm lost" immediately cuts past the "Is this person a scammer/beggar?" you normally think when a stranger walks up to you.

"trying to get to the airport and I don't have much money" is not the quest you want to be faking...

I think the quest thing works because it gives you both roles: you are the Quester, they are the Helper. Both of you know what's expected of you. You are supposed to ask questions passionately, they are supposed to answer helpfully. Random gym conversations are hard because your roles are undefined ("How am I supposed to react?"). In general, many shy people do better socially when they can adopt a role. A shy person might become un-shy when they work as a barista, because they have a role ("barista"). And on a grand scale, a celebrity singer might become un-shy on stage, because she has a role ("singer").

I read something a while ago that talked about this. Friendships are solidified mostly by asking for help. It shows the other person that you trust them and people are often honored that you would do so. Even if the request is small.

So being on a quest is a great approach! You often need help and are in a discovery phase where you need to interact with people. Even if the interactions don’t go anywhere most of the time.

In my travels, I've found old grandmas as the best people to interact with. In most cultures, those poor old ladies are mostly ignored anyways, so they're always happy to talk to you even if they don't speak your language. Of course they can spot fake a mile away, so be genuine. I was traveling in Italy and had a blast "chatting" with grannies on the streets. Same in Armenia. And Belgium.

there's a famous quote- two things you must not look for: love and death; they will find you when the time comes. so basically just do genuine stuff and it will happen. OP also hints at it when they say it's about doing your hobbies with other people. it's the same with the quest stuff imo. OTOH the PUA-types have the wrong approach because it's the opposite to this. they turn relationships into a goal and look for artificial tricks to make it happen

You've so perfectly explained something that I picked up from my father. He always seemed to have a way to get special treatment from people. I always explained it in a very Australian way; "he's a bit of a character" and figured it was tied to his gift of "telling a yarn".

But reflecting on it now, it's because he was always on a quest.

Unfortunately, Internet + Smartphones have invalidated 2.

"Why don't you just google it yourself?"

This was excellent.

If I may toss out another recommendation: Volunteering is one of the best ways I have found to meet people.

A food pantry, house of worship, the library, a community theater, a political group, an environmental service group, local writers group, homeless shelter, women's center, whatever - there are so many things to choose from.

I found several advantages to making friends this way:

1. no/low stress because you are doing them a favor showing up. Any volunteer-based organization NEEDS people. YOU are people. They NEED you. Don't be stressed because you might not know what's going on. They will be GLAD to see you.

2. Volunteer onboarding processes force other humans to be nice to you and get to know you in order to place you in a service group or provide you an assignment. The people that most organizations have doing this are outgoing and friendly. I'm generalizing, but having served with a bunch of volunteer organizations, I have found this to be the rule. I was often one of them.

3. If you are volunteering for something that you care about / believe in / are passionate for, then you INSTANTLY know that you are meeting people with something in common. This gives you both something to talk about or bond over.

Source: I met my wife and many friends volunteering in different organizations.

Acts of service.

I was at a Gurudwara (Sikh house of Worship) yesterday for a wake and everyone who enters the cafeteria perform shevas, that is, you take a turn serving everyone else food. It was very nice to do.

Wonderful! There's a lot of advice online about how essentially evil it is to talk to strangers: They're busy, they have headphones in, they might think you're hitting on them (God forbid; nothing could be more evil than attraction). Ignore it. It often as not boils down to fear and neuroticism from terminally online introverts (and sometimes plain old misanthropists) raised in a hyper-individualist culture and glued to devices sometimes from infancy.

Fair enough if an introvert just wants to be left alone; we should obviously never force our company on anyone (nor do the mentally healthy among us have any desire to do so, because we have empathy). However, people like that will let us know that they don't want to talk when we approach them, either directly or via body language and the nature of their replies. For many others, they're starving for social interaction, and it might make their day for you to reach out. This is what makes outreach worth it, in the end, despite the risk.

I find it so bitterly ironic that the people whose opinions we read the most of - the terminally online Redditors and tweeters - are exactly the kind of people we should not be listening to.

Like you alluded to, the terminally online people who post the most tend to be those with neuroticism, isolation, severe anxiety, etc. There's a famous Reddit post about this I can't seem to find - "Everyone Online Is Insane" or something.

I really think this is why the past decade+ of American culture, politics, and society has been so off-the-wall insane. The Overton Window - another overused Redditism - of society has shifted towards the opinions of the neurotic and anxious. Those are the people whose words fill the comment sections and posts that we all read, which then infuse our minds to expect these thoughts as the baseline/median opinion of society.

> they might think you're hitting on them (God forbid; nothing could be more evil than attraction)

You can find legions of people, particularly women, who do not want to be hit on unless they already find the other person attractive. Being hit on by an unattractive person may even quality for them as something akin to danger, already along the spectrum towards stalking or assault. Has nothing to do with being terminally online and has been reported since long before there was ever an internet.

> For many others, they're starving for social interaction

HN is an international forum, and while people are reporting increased loneliness in many countries, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they want attention from strangers. Where I live, a total stranger talking to you in public is annoying; it is strongly associated with foreigners who haven’t learned yet how to behave acceptably within the local culture. What people might be starving for are serious, long-term social bonds, of the kind that used to be common through large extended families, the parish church, team sports, and school friends who stay put and don’t move away. A mere friendly stranger in public could lead to such real bonds only rarely, so rarely that it’s not even worth considering.

Computers are feedback loops that ultimately are trying to take up 100% of 100% of people's consciousness seconds, so it makes sense that the winning/dominant ideologies on the internet are just whichever ones cause you to not spend time on anything except the screen.

I have never met anyone on the street who wasn't mentally ill or tried to sell me something. Types like this ignore your brief answers, facial expressions and body language, and continue to yap on. Honestly, I cannot imagine a single situation where a random interaction with a stranger on the street would be a positive experience. No, I do not strive for you to "reach out", on the contrary, I avoid you like a rotting carcass of a pigeon.

In this Northern European country of mine, I’ve got as much of a neutral third party that I can think of: a friend born and raised to adulthood in the Third World. They’ve got more “extrovertism” in them than 99.9% of the natives. Yet this advice from socializing entrepeneurs with One Weird Trick doesn’t seem to hold up. People here are not all hypnotized by their screens and low self-esteem, or whatever, and then lifted up when their poor social-starved selves get attention from a kind stranger. We are just... like that. Not genetic. Not immutable. But it runs deep. Very deep. Deeper than what an “extrovert” all by themselves can penetrate.

So if there is a cultural pathology it takes way more than what socializing entrepeneurs seem to think.

> Fair enough if an introvert just wants to be left alone; we should obviously never force our company on anyone (nor do the mentally healthy among us have any desire to do so, because we have empathy). However, people like that will let us know that they don't want to talk when we approach them, either directly or via body language and the nature of their replies. For many others, they're starving for social interaction, and it might make their day for you to reach out. This is what makes outreach worth it, in the end, despite the risk.

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> However, people like that will let us know that they don't want to talk when we approach them, either directly or via body language and the nature of their replies. For many others, they're starving for social interaction, and it might make their day for you to reach out. This is what makes outreach worth it, in the end, despite the risk.

Nope.

Normal people—not freaks like me—in my culture will fume in private. Yes: any slight by a stranger will be relegated to complaints to your friends. Much more likely than sending any bad vibes. We’re cowards like that.

I’m reminded of some anecdote about Westerners being struck by how helpful Japanese people are. (This is from memory and may be wrong.) The context is that they are tourists. Well, apparently Japanese people have very strict social norms about being polite and helpful. This is amazing for tourists: they get all of the social upsides while not having to pay anything in return (because they are oblivious to it).

I will happily stop and chat with you if you demonstrate that it is worth the time and interruption (if I was lost in thought, that will take at least 5-10 minutes to get back to).

If not, I will not let you know. I will just fume, blame and judge you for some time after.

This guy gets it.

"(God forbid; nothing could be more evil than attraction). " - is it sarcasm?

I feel, like a lot of 21st century life is trying to do things artificially. Going to the gym, talking to strangers at the gym, ... these are both artifical replacements for human activity that is missing. You go to the gym because your daily routine isn't active enough. You try to form friendships with strangers because your daily routine lacks real and fulfilling interactions with other people.

Also it's kind of odd how nowadays everyone goes to the gym. Growing up as a late-stage millenial, gym goers were a niche subculture. Now it marketed to everyone everywhere as this integral part of modern daily life.

> "Going to the gym, talking to strangers at the gym, ... these are both artifical replacements for human activity that is missing."

As opposed to what, our ancient hunter gatherer lifestyle? Going to the gym and talking to strangers at the gym isn't an "artificial replacement", it's a genuine activity lots of people do.

> "You try to form friendships with strangers because your daily routine lacks real and fulfilling interactions with other people."

How do you think people make friends? They make friends by interacting with people at shared spaces and activities.

> Also it's kind of odd how nowadays everyone goes to the gym. Growing up as a late-stage millenial, gym goers were a niche subculture. Now it marketed to everyone everywhere as this integral part of modern daily life.

GenX here and I feel the same way. To me, "The Gym" has always been a place where bodybuilders and muscle heads go. In my mind, it will always be a niche hobby like autocross racing or horseback riding. And I know that I'm wrong! Everyone and their mom seems to go to The Gym now! But, it's hard to change the culture and learnings that you grew up with.

Aerobics classes have been a thing for decades. Pumping Iron came out in 1977. When I was in college (UVA, 95-99), there were several good gyms, plus they built a fancy new one about mid-way through my degree.

I suspect you just happened to be in a time/place where gym use was lower than average.

> Going to the gym... artificial replacements for human activity that is missing

Compared to what? Even the ancient Greeks and Romans spent a significant amount of time in gymnasiums. Or are you comparing modern times to cavemen?

Yeah I think this is everywhere in society now. For example, you used to have to ask others for directions, which naturally leads in to conversation about where your going.

Now you look like a bit odd if you ask for directions since everyone has a smart phone now. So you have to go create artificial scenarios to socialize.

Boomers and Gen X are riddled with diseases associated with a sedentary lifestyle and poor nutrition/diet. I would like to think the generations are learning from the mistakes of their predecessors. A lot of science has come out about the benefits of resistance training as well, along with the normalization of women doing resistance training in large part due to CrossFit

crossfit made the gym (and free weights) cool

crossfit became popular as a side effect of "bootcamp" style workouts in the 2000s-2010s, like the Spartan Run, Tough Mudder, Rucking, etc.

mark rippetoe, creator of Starting Strength, was heavily involved in crossfit. between that and him franchising his Starting Strength practice, powerlifting became more widely practiced. once Instagram started building lifestyle brands around this (gymshark, alphalete, nobull, darcsport, etc.), it was a lock.

> it's kind of odd how nowadays everyone goes to the gym. Growing up as a late-stage millenial, gym goers were a niche subculture

Let's not make it a generalisation. The US and UK are big into the gym thing, not every country is. I remember seeing some data that ~25% of people in the UK (maybe a slice of population, eg 18-30yo, can't remember) were regular gym-goers against 8% in France.

For me going to the gym (actually YMCA) is just a way to express agency in a society that increasingly is trying to rob me of that. I may be gatekept out of various other things, because I'm not attractive enough, not high income enough, not smart enough, not young enough, etc etc. But as now, nobody can stop me from going to work out.

If only those treadmills and spinning and repetitive activities could be harnessed to generate electricity or pump water, and really close the loop!

Indeed, it's the underlying principle of "division of labor".

Karl Marx' coined the term "Alienation" for describing most of the negative societal/human consequences of this principle, leading to isolation of humans "from themselves" (their natural will to construct something whole meaningful, not just complete a task in a process, but also isolation between humans themselves)

If you want to build a relationship with someone, try asking them for a small favor rather than offering one first* (or, for example, making random small talk about the weather). Most people love to help and feel useful. If you're new to the gym or want to learn a new exercise, you can simply ask for help. It's something we'naturally do if we weren't so afraid of approaching strangers.

*just paraphrasing a famous quote

I have heard this repeated across books and podcasts for years but I’ve only seen it fail in person.

Maybe it might not fail if the “favor” isn’t really a favor at all but instead something almost completely effortless like asking for the time or directions to the bathroom.

However when someone is at the gym and another stranger asks them to stop and do a favor that takes time out of their gym visit it’s just annoying, not a friendship starter.

I learned about this technique from Owen Wilson’s character in the otherwise exceptionally forgettable movie “The Haunting (1999).” Paradoxically, you are the one doing them a favor by effectively giving them permission to ask for help in the future.

The Ben Franklin effect is real! My experience at conferences has improved significantly by ending talks on a personal note and explicitly saying that I have trouble approaching people but very much like being approached and chat about anything. This usually leads to interesting conversations in the breaks. Please give it a try if you are like me and aimlessly wander the hallways in between sessions otherwise.

I've learned this by reading Influence by Robert Cialdini.The trick is find something to which they say yes. If they do it their brain kind of tells them: If I did him/her a favor it's because I like him/her.... and liking opens other doors

I have heard that this is called the Benjamin Franklin effect, and it appears to be an inversion of the principle of reciprocity coined by Robert Cialdini.

This is a Benjamin Franklin hack right?

proper psychopath stuff this. seriously just be nice to people. OP gets it right.

Good for you, OP! Climbing gyms are especially good for making friends because you are working on problems with people. My gym has a weekly meet up for people looking for belay partners as well as classes where folks talk. Crossfit might also do the trick, as might a running club. Good luck!

The other thing with climbing gyms, especially bouldering is that you only spend maybe 20% of the time climbing. With 80% time off, that's a lot of opportunities for socializing.

You don't get that with the high intensity training like Crossfit where you spend maybe 70% of the time working out and 30% of the time dying.

I'll second climbing gyms. My entire core group of friends in my city (that weren't already friends prior to my moving here) are people I met from the climbing gym or yoga classes at the climbing gym.

Its a great space to meet new people, there are inherent breaks in the activity, shared problems to work on, and its a non-competitive space. Everyone just wants everyone else to send hard.

I relate a lot OP's situation but every time I think about trying to talk to someone else I just get worried that if it does go "bad" (i.e. very awkward) then it will become to mentally hard to stay at the gym for the rest of the session or even come back and since its a place I actually like being in I end up never trying anything in fear of ruining a place I like. I don't know if anyone else feels like that but I just felt like leaving this comment.

+1 from me. I always find it very challenging to speak to strangers, but not at the Boulder gym. There's just so many opportunities to start a natural conversation:

- new climbers asks you for advise

- you can ask a new climber if they'd like some technique tips

- you finally top your project and someone commends you for it

- someone tops your project and you ask them for advise

- you're trying to top a boulder on a new set and are solving it with others

- you're _constantly_ in the gym so staff starts talking to you

I used to rock climb in gyms a lot. I stopped going because I found the people there incredibly irritating (didn't matter on the gym). The things that irritated me: 1) People would immediately jump on the route I was on after seeing I struggled. Cool flex. 2) Unsolicited advice. Thanks, but I'm here minding my own business

I generally have a hard time connecting with people like OP but found that I was able to find good climbing partners outside as opposed to in the gym.

I now do crossfit and while I know it's not for everyone, it's a decent community. I still don't talk to folks in the gym, I don't want to but I like that we're all in it together and pushing ourselves pretty hard. I feel connected in that way.

I would really not like a stranger tapping me on the shoulder in the gym. That's my "alone time". That's just me though.

I completely agree with climbing gyms!

I'm lucky enough that I live in a city that has a newbie-friendly group that climbs every week and goes for dinner and board games afterwards.

I consider myself an introvert, but after going for a while, I got to figure out who are regulars, and they recognise me as a new regular too, at which point they're more open to socialising more, even outside the weekly meetups.

Even when I'm bouldering alone, I've had random people cheer for me when I'm about to send, or show me the beta for a route I'm struggling with, or ask for help with a problem. It just provides a very natural conversation starter, at which point you can pivot to other topics, provided they seem open to talking more.

+1 for climbing gyms. In my experience the people there are really open and welcoming. Most are down for a quick chat.

Liverpool (near OP who’s in Syracuse) has a fantastic very friendly climbing gym with Auto Belays; easy to go solo.

I can definitely relate. What's funny is I've always been really social and open to talking to strangers, plus I come from a culture where this is accepted and encouraged (Brazil).

However, I've been working remotely for 7 years now and recently became a solo founder, and I realized I'm having a fair amount of social anxiety. At the previous two companies, I was working remotely but still had people online to chat to, and would meet in person once in a while. Now as a solo founder I've just been working from home and I noticed that when I was leaving the house to buy groceries or work out that was my "break time" and I somehow just wanted to be more alone so I always had my headphones on.

That meant that I became someone who's running away from social interaction the more I actually needed it. And that when placed in a social situation I'm suddenly anxious whereas before this all came very naturally to me (I've also spoken in public very often etc).

How I'm coping:

- Got a WeWork membership

- Leaving the house without headphones

- Striking up conversation with uber drivers, cashiers, etc

- Making an effort to go to events (even flying somewhere at my own expense to speak at a small event for the first time in years)

Remote work is absolutely brutal to a cohesive functioning society. I know people are going to slam me for saying it but is honestly true. People forgot how to interact with each other because the forcing function that gets everybody mixed together into the same pot got taken away. And if you don’t take some fairly extreme steps to counter it, you’ll be completely alone and isolated, subject to algorithmically chosen feeds that are completely unique to you and detached from the community around you.

It’s really quite dystopian and anti-human if you ask me. We’ve already lost so much shared mediums—nobody watches the same shows, reads the same media, etc. which in isolation is completely fine. But something has to be shared with other real physical humans and it has to be more than just occasional grocery store visits, run-ins at the park, etc.

I dunno quite how to articulate it very well though. It’s just remote work has a nasty side effect of making humans even more isolated from people not like themselves. It makes us all increasingly divided and “othered”. And that isn’t good for anybody.

On headphones: I recently got a set of Aftershokz headphones to use as sleep headphones that worked with my custom earplugs plugged in.

They work amazingly for that purpose, but I was not at all prepared for how much more social these would (re-)make me.

Listening to music helps me relax. If I could, I'd have something on at all times. (Jazz in the morning, KEXP in the afternoon, classical at night.) With these, I can talk to people and hear them crystal clearly while listening to whatever I have on. I don't need to compromise like I did (and do) while wearing AirPods (even in transparency mode). This has made me more receptive to striking up conversation.

On coworking: couldn't agree more. Being around other people has been great for my mental health, even if I'm not talking to them. I'm also the kind of person that needs work and home life to be physically separate and needs a commute to make work feel like work. Taking the bus into work is scratching that itch well.

I've always had an easy time talking to strangers and striking up conversations. I think this line is the key one:

> But over time, I came to accept that it’s ok if they didn’t want to talk to me. That’s just one of the things you have to expect when you do something like this.

People are complex! They have a lot going on. You almost never get someone responding with the same attention you are giving. That's just how it is.

What he is doing is developing a practice of friendliness. This won't develop close friendships - close friendships are what happen after you're successfully friendly to people who are good fit. But it will set you up to do well in semi-public spaces like the gym or your friends' party where you don't know anyone. It's an extremely good skill to practice and, unlike what I would have said at twenty, it does not reflect a lack of depth. Understanding that not everyone wants to have a deep conversation at every moment is maturity - doubly so if you can recognize it in yourself.

I have always been good at this and I am pretty introverted. You don't want to force conversations, just start by saying 'What's up?"'. Keep doing it over and over. The is all proved our in social psychology and proximity theory which in a nutshell means you are more likely to get to know people you see more often. You just need to let people know you see them and over time raise the bar.

Recently I went to the grocery store and as I entered the alcohol section, I saw a guy stacking the shelves. His hand slipped and the beer can jumped out but he showed impressive reflexes and caught it after couple of fumbles. There was no one else but him and me in the aisle.

I enthusiastically pointed out, "I saw that! That was amazing, great reflexes!" and added that sometimes no one sees these but I will definitely remember it. He was beaming and while I was checking out my stuff, I saw him excitedly pointing towards the aisle and me while chatting with a cashier. Where I am at, it is not the usual to throw loud and vocal compliments at strangers - so I guess he wasn't used to it.

I usually don't compliment people this enthusiastically but I guess the mood and time was right and I felt as good giving the compliment as he must have felt receiving it.

I think a big part of this is that men don't typically receive genuine compliments that often, especially from strangers or acquaintances. When it (rarely) does happen I feel like it can have a significant impact on their mood.

"According to Reddit” - so many lives have been ruined listening to what gremlins on social media have to say.

It’s simple. If you want, approach. It’s not dangerous, you won’t get cancer. If they don’t want to talk, you will stop talking with them and talk with someone else.

"I am deeply afraid of irritating someone or being in awkward situations." - anyone who thinks like this is suffering from abused dog syndrome and unironically has lost at life.

Also, why is he talking about “friends” and “strangers”? We all know he means “women". And there is LITERALLY no problem politely engaging conversation with a strange woman at the gym even if she has earpods on. It’s not a crime, just be normal. You are forgetting that other people are shy too and often want someone to take initiative since in 2026 nobody does.

> Also, why is he talking about “friends” and “strangers”? We all know he means “women".

Does he? It seems like he socialised mainly with men in the documented interactions. Perhaps he really was just lonely in the general sense.

My life quality increased immensely when I realized most of Reddit is bots and the parts written by real humans are usually written by the type of person that you really shouldn’t take any advice from

> ... anyone who thinks like this is suffering from abused dog syndrome and unironically has lost at life.

I mean, social anxiety - the neurosis itself - is just this. People haven't "lost at life" for having a mental health problem. I think it's quite commendable that someone can recognise their own shortcomings in this regard and work on it in a positive light.

What you might find easy, someone else might find exceedingly difficult - for example, people who find it difficult to keep up their health when they are clinically depressed.

You can find contrary advice for any given topic, all upvoted highly, if you look for it.

Post College friendships can be hard. Friendships before graduations are almost all completely spontaneous and natural. No one has to _really_ know how to be the initiator. My experience suggests that it doesn’t really get better as you age, either.

My wife and I took on that role after college. Neither of us is particularly outgoing, but we’re not cripplingly shy either.

Meeting new people is about realizing you’re not alone in feeling lonely. When we pick up on positive vibes we just ask for a phone number “can I have your phone number? You seem cool, and I’d love to ___. (Fill in the blank with one of “get a cup of coffee/beer”, “take a walk,” “invite you to a [thing I host].” It’s not significantly different from the dating scene except it’s so much lower stakes. I recommend sticking to same sex or group invites for this reason. Rejections are rare, and almost certainly don’t reflect on you.

Secondly we start things on schedules. Things that happen regularly are super low pressure ways to start friendships: “hey, we cook an elaborate dinner and then hang out and play instruments/sing/watch a movie/hang out at the beach/take a hike once a month/week/whatever, join us!”

This makes it easy to invite anyone without it feeling like a date.

I say all this knowing that none of this is _easy_, but it is a kindness. You’re not alone feeling lonely. With a little bravery you can totally be the person who makes it better for your new group of friends.

> Friendships before graduations are almost all completely spontaneous and natural.

They are mainly from proximity. You see people in class, you live near them, and you're near the same age. It's the same reason in person work would generate friendships/relationships. The challenge in today's remote world is proximity now has to be intentional.

I loved the writing, in particular this line, but the whole piece was strangely endearing:

     I asked if he was Canadian. He wasn't. The end

I loved it too. I audibly laughed at this one:

"Korean girl Short I didn't know how to start a conversation with her, so I just asked if she was Korean and she said yes. Then I made her guess what kind of Asian I am. Then I rambled about being Asian in Syracuse before leaving. I initiated one more conversation but now we don't interact"

So endearing!

You can easily continue this into a conversation, FYI: "Oh, lol - you did X, and I knew another Canadian who did X, so I thought that might be a Canadian thing. Where are you from then?"

I've been going to the gym for decades, and to my current one for about a decade. There's a cadre of fairly serious people who have been there for that long or longer who all know each other. Even if we don't necessarily know someone's name, we can usually give a short description, and everyone will know who we're talking about.

The downside is you get sucked into the operational drama. The guy who started the gym lives there and has developed obvious memory problems, while the business partner basically stole the business from underneath him. His now-ex-wife took all of his savings, including an insurance payout from when he was struck by a semi during a traffic accident and was forced to medically retire from being a policeman. I believe most of that money went to frequent Disney trips. The business partner is trying to drive him out by charging him rent to stay there and watch the place, changing the hours so he can't get quiet, and she also stopped paying him altogether.

We usually just commiserate on who and what we can't stand and the degradation of general gym etiquette: people screaming like they're having sex while working out, people sitting on equipment and playing with their phones, people so checked out they take the exact piece of equipment you were on, despite it being a large gym with duplicate machines for most things. These are evergreen discussion topics.

I find that most people don't reach out to previous friends if they haven't been contacted in a while. For whatever reason, I don't have that internal programming. Whenever I remember, I will ping my friends or old coworkers going back 20+ years and go out for lunch, and it's always a great time. It's best to not have too much pride over it, life is too short in my opinion.

Yeah this is what I like to do. I don’t like to talk to strangers (maybe I should) but I much prefer striking up conversations with old acquaintances, even if we hadn’t talked in years. It somehow felt easier and more satisfying for me to pick up an old acquaintanceship than to try to make new friends.

And I almost never get a no when I make the effort. One of the people I spend the most time with as an adult is one of my childhood friends who we just randomly went for beers once after not seeing in 15 years and now meet up every month or two since we still had the same chemistry as we did as kids

I want to congratulate the author for getting out of his comfort zone to tackle a hard problem. But being able to make friends at a gym is not a universal experience.

I joined a gym partially to get fit and partially to meet people with similar fitness goals. Working out alone just feels sad. I tried to be friendly with people, would smile and say "hi," when I walked past someone. I would ask someone a non-confrontational question about their workout. In months of trying, maybe a handful of people who at least said anything back. Zero conversations. The rest either responded with a blank stare or pretended to not hear me at all. Nobody ever approached me or said hi first the whole time I was there, except sometimes the people behind the counter.

I'm socially deficient but not THAT awkward and have no problem talking to people in other situations. I'm not sure if it was the kind of gym I was at, or just the wrong time of day, or if people in the gym only want attention from those who won the genetic lottery. But I didn't have much success.

Different gyms do have different cultures and probably time of day matters too. Absolute worst is right after work it’s so packed and everyone’s still kind of stressed and looking to get done and head out on to the next chore

I go to my gym alone and it seems to me 90% of people there are alone. Also all are wearing headphones.

I'd highly suggest joining a Brazilian jiu jitsu gym. They tend to be filled with other computer nerds (although not only) and people are very friendly in a genuine way.

> I asked him a question, he answered and left. I guess he didn't want to talk

If you have anxiety about talking to strangers, just remember that 99% of the time when someone doesn't really want to talk, this happens. Not really that scary after all

My fear is I’m socially awkward, I might do or say something I genuinely didn’t know was awkward, and that person will make a TikTok video of me and ruin my life. I’ve seen videos from people posting about “creeps at the gym” and it’s just a guy looking in the direction of the girl taking the video, and it seems like just looking in the general direction of someone for too long could make you a public example of a creep, and that’s basically my nightmare.

And people might say “well if you know you didn’t do anything wrong so you shouldn’t be worried” but I’ve gotten into trouble many times for things I knew weren’t wrong but you can’t rationally argue with herd mentality when a group of people decide something is a faux pas.

Yup!

I think picking up people at the bar is easier than making friends at the gym - what you want is to join a crossfit gym, or something that has a stronger community culture to it. Not the gym.

But I hear that with Gen Z and Alpha they dont really go to bars but they do tend to go to the gym, and so the gym is becoming a more social space. So maybe OP is on the right track?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/may/15/why-gym-plac...

There's a pub in my city where the staff greet you when you walk in and actively encourage you to sit at a table that's already occupied. If you come in alone you'll probably end up sitting at a two person table where inevitably there will be a stranger right across from you, with a couple similar tables right next to it. Of course if you want to be alone you can go sit in a corner somewhere.

Needless to say everyone starts talking to each other after a drink or two. This bar is enormously popular. I've never seen it not be packed. It's an incredibly successful strategy for them. With all the complaints about the death of third spaces, I'm baffled that more places don't do this. I see no reason a cafe couldn't do it as well.

All this to say I think it's a great loss that younger people aren't going to bars as much. I wouldn't say they're the best way to form deep connections, but I have zero fear of ever lacking random social interactions, because I know I can just go to a reasonably busy pub in the evening, sit at the bar, and sooner or later either I'll start a conversation or someone else will. It's also a great way to get good at handling opinions that are different from yours - if you have a thin skin or live in a bubble, being subjected to drunk people from every walk of life will rectify those issues quickly lol.

I have a ton of "gym friends." And this is a commercial gym. We know each other's names, will help out with spots, have small conversations. None of those have yet led to hanging out outside the gym, but if you go to the gym at the same time every day, you're bound to at least start to recognize people, and it's really easy to say, hey I've seen you around a lot, my name is...

i think this can also depend on location. I live in a military town and have been a powerlifter for several years, i routinely have men come up to ask about my routine. a handful of times its turned into real friendships.

Bars are a common place, but do you really want to meet the type of person who hangs out in a bar? Sure if you only want a one night stand what they do with the rest of their life doesn't matter. However if you want a relationship you probably don't want to start with a high odds of finding a borderline alcoholic.

Or join something that's inherently a group activity. For me, it's singing in a choir. Everybody goes there to do something together with other folk, which lowers the barrier.

Second this. CrossFit is fantastic for community. Not so sure about my knees though!

Being an introvert myself and perfectly fine when being alone, this is so hard to read. Possibly it's just me but making new friends is quite overrated, and the whole thing OP does feels forced and artificial at many levels. Genuine connection should be built on mutual deep interests, and small talks at random places rarely reveal them. I'd be disappointed if someone starts a conversation with me artificially because I'm part of their hidden social experiment.

> Genuine connection should be built on mutual deep interests

That's backwards. You can't find friends with "mutual deep interests" without talking to strangers. You have to first find out somehow whether there are mutual interests in the first place.

Key word: rarely

It’s a numbers game with very low stakes to the downside and very high to the upside

Hey I can see why you think that. There were times when I had to reflect on whether I was doing it because I had set a goal of talking to one new person that day or doing it because I was actually interested in them. And I think both were true. There's a lot of people in the gym but I chose to talk to this specific person because of an exercise they were doing, a cool t-shirt they were wearing, or their awesome hair

I think that working out can be a mutual deep interest

I thought the same thing. This was really uncomfortable for me.

> do your hobby with other people, frequently

I think this advice can be refined.

The goal is to meet people with shared interests, regularly.

You may like to work out, but unless you enjoy talking and thinking about working out, the gym isn't the right place!

You may like to hike, but you may not enjoy talking and thinking about hiking. You may still find friends in the hiking group, because as you spend time together you discover shared interests. But you may also discover that you have very little in common with the people who like hiking.

That's why it's so easy to make friends in University: You spend a lot of time together AND you have a shared interest: The major you all chose!

On the other hand, if you're into ... trains... you need to find places where people go that like to talk and think about trains! That's not always easy!

Yes I agree! The shared interest really helps with developing the connection

I realized with the people where I really care about leaving a good impression or hoping to become friends with, it's really hard and scary to do any kind of interaction. If I on the other hand have no desire for a friendship with someone but a chance occurs to chat, I talk to them like I know them for decades and am fully relaxed and don't really have any kind of anexiety.

Seems that the more you want something, the more you are able to sabotage yourself getting it.

Imo talking to strangers at the gym is hard. I made friends there just by saying 'Hi', waving to them when we started to see each other working out often enough. Then once you're using the same equipment or get dressed in the locker room you have a conversation about whatever and there you go.

Anyway, the fastest way I made friends outside of school was at a language course, where you have to speak a lot about something. You can switch partners during the course, so you can talk to other people. Another thing is sports clubs, it works out the same as the gym.

So the answer is, I guess, just going to gatherings where people learn new things with an instructor.

100% this. As you say, language courses need content so a lot of it is talking about your life/opinions. Super easy to make friends after a few weeks of that if you make a tiny bit of effort

This reminds me of a college dorm friend who always seemed to be on a date with someone new.

His philosophy was simple: “It’s the law of large numbers. If you ask enough people out, and don’t fear rejection, you’re eventually going to get a yes. And along the way, you build the confidence and skill to ask better.”

> there’s a number of people [at the gym] who want to be left alone and can be irritated if you interrupted their workout to talk.

This one is pretty easy. Look for the people who spend more time yapping than working out. They generally love to meet new people. The opposite case is pretty obvious too. Don't approach someone just as they are preparing to start a set or if they're going hard on a treadmill or bike. Generally, if someone is not talking to anyone and seems locked in, earbuds in, etc. probably leave them alone. But asking for a spot when they're between sets is an easy excuse to at least get their name. Nobody is going to really mind that, and you'll pick up pretty quickly whether they're talkative or not.

If you want to talk to men at the gym it's easy and no need for awkward scripts. Just ask for a spot. Most guys will feel honoured to be asked as you're showing trust in them. They'll spot you and then just talk about lifting. I met loads of guys this way.

Don't talk to girls you're attracted to, though. They can tell. If they want you to talk to them they'll give you signs. But that's a whole other thing.

The bullet point list in the intro was so relatable. It brought back some still painful memories. I often wish I could go back in time and do some of those things differently. I don't know what I was afraid of, but I missed out on so many connections.

> Don't talk to girls you're attracted to, though. They can tell. If they want you to talk to them they'll give you signs. But that's a whole other thing.

What if you never receive any "signs", as far as you can tell? Should you never talk to girls?

> Don't talk to girls you're attracted to, though

Are you only supposed to date girls you're not attracted to?

I've been going to the gym for the past year after exclusively running in solitude. I am still introverted at the gym .. it's sort of my time. But I do appreciate overhearing the conversations which occur.

It's been nice to hear 60-something retirees chat about their health, quitting alcohol, sorting out the pickleball schedule, and sometimes politics (although honestly much more rare relative to the others listed)

I love the community some folks create in the gym.

Is kind of sad reading the aftermath "never saw em again" kind of thing or "don't interact"

Shared interest is a main driver and frequency of interaction/seeing each other... like you become friends at school since you see each other everyday kind of thing

Shared interest, I've recently gotten into cars though I still ride the clapped out POS and someone was showing me their Porsche, sat in it, pretty cool.

But I see that person at work. In general work people don't become friends but sometimes... one of em I go over to their house, when I used to drink I'd drink with them. I do find I have to do more message initiation myself to keep things going so idk. One old friend of mine sends me reels almost everyday on instagram random dumb shit idk. Right now though I only have like 5 real friends that I talk to almost everyday. When I was younger 10s/100s but yeah that goes away as you get older. Also doesn't help I moved away to another state so lost all my IRL friends. And real friends I mean one time when I was really in a bad spot my friend loaned me 10 Gs which not trying to say money is friendship but yeah.

In hindsight a lottt of the "don't interact" is more like we say hi when we're near each other but I'm not initiating more conversations. I'm down to talk but I'm letting them start the conversation if they want to. I updated the article to be more clear

I get reels nonstop too

Great timing. I used to see a guy at the gym for a few months, we always go at the same time, and one day he approached me to correct my form, we had a chat and we kept meeting in the gym for a few months after that and until yesterday I mustered the courage to even ask him his name. Literally didn't even know his name for months, so yesterday I asked and got his number to catch up later.

omggg let me know when you get married

I had a friend years ago that was truly amazing at interacting with people. She could, and did, talk to anyone - a rich guy with a $20K watch or a homeless guy; it didn't matter to her. And, the thing that really stuck with me is she always left the people that she interacted with feeling better. Always. I have numerous memories of her conversing with people and watching their expressions or body language completely change in a matter of minutes.

Anyway, that's the part I've tried to focus on - making at least one person I interact with everyday feel better. It doesn't have to be a major, life-changing interaction, just inject a tiny bit of positivity into someone's life. The main thing I realized was that I had to surrender the fear of being perceived as cheesy, corny, fake or manipulative. I think it's gone well; I hope I've made others feel better, if only for a moment. But honestly, I think it's helped me the most.

This is great! Good on you for putting together a plan and taking action.

One thing I noticed when I was doing salsa dancing is that there's a normal distribution for how you "click" with people. With salsa dancing, you change partners frequently so I may have interacted with dozens of people in one night of dancing. I noticed how most people fall in the middle of being fine to dance with and then you get a few outliers where they are either terrible to dance with or are amazing.

It looks like OP found something similar. Out of 35 encounters, he had 5-6 advance to the "prioritization" stage (~14%) and 2 (5%) ended up moving into building a relationship outside of the normal environment you usually interact at. I think that is very relatable. Most people you interact with will be fine to chat with but only a small percentage will be people that you really gel with.

Was interesting to read this post because I've always been an extrovert and have never had trouble making friends. I usually make friends quickly ... and my problem is in the other direction ... I have too many friends and people get mad at me because I don't have the time to keep up with every relationship I've built in 40+ years.

I've been a best man 6 times. A groomsman 20+ times. I'm spread really thin now that I also have kids and a wife and family commitments.

Sometimes I actually crave solitude more than anything else.

Reading this post is almost like reading about another tribe from a distant place, and what it feels like to live their lives.

Is it weird that I'm kind of envious of this guy and his life? Not enough to trade places ... because I'd miss my wife and kids and close friends ... but if I could just like be him for a few weeks and then come back to my life.

I enjoyed this read, the energy, and the detailed positive outlook. However, what am I supposed to take away from "5 weeks / 35 people / no new recurring friends"? Every time I go out I feel this personally, and I never understood why so many people have such thick shells to crack.

I did make friends though

Very sweet story. Next, invite that guy and his girlfriend and maybe someone else over to your place, or out to do something. Reciprocation matters a lot.

> and maybe someone else

From my experience "connectors" make the most friends and do the most activities.

I just assume any guy trying to make small talk with me at the gym is trying to hit on me, which I am correct about maybe 80% of the time. I know because I am a gay guy so I know how this kind of thing goes. Not that I have a problem with it, I am always happy to talk to any strangers if they want to, for pretty much any reason. As a straight-passing guy though, women at the gym never approach me except to ask if I am done using a machine, and I also don’t approach them because I assume they’ll just think I’m trying to hit on them. I’m just unsure how to approach people at the gym while making it immediately clear that I am just looking for a friend/workout buddy and not anything more than that

I was worried about the same thing. I couldn't find a solution so I kinda just accepted that if they misinterpreted me then that's ok. I politely back off and leave them alone. It feels awkward the few days after but I quickly got used to it and I have had no issues afterwards. I'm sorry if this didn't help, I know I'm basically saying jUsT aCcEpT iT

Such a cute read (I mean that in the best way possible). I'm quite a social person and it's really cool to see someone be so systemic about it. But I would not have the balls to just talk to random people in the way you did it, and I really admire that about you!

> activities suggested by r/Syracuse like volleyball ... require you to already have friends.

False! Find a gym with open hours and just show up! I used to do this all the time with my friends, but there were always a few people there on their own. There is always someone a couple players short for their team, so just ask around ("Hey, you need anyone else on your team?") and you'll find some people to play with. Keep coming back week after week and you'll make some friends eventually.

I assume this works equally well for most team sports that can be played casually such as basketball, soccer, and others.

If you want to make friends, water your friend seeds.

Everybody knows a bunch of people by name, and nothing else, from various contexts. You go to matriculation, there's a bunch of people introducing themselves, too many to get to know. You work a job, there's 50 people whose name you know. You go to a party, your friends introduce you to 10 new people, and you don't have time to talk to them all.

The ones you don't talk to much, they are your friend seeds.

You move to a new town, and you know nobody, other than that one guy you never spoke to after the first week of university. Contact that guy.

If talking to random strangers worked then people would be doing this more often.

The problem is that it's usually extremely unlikely that you actually have something in common with a random stranger. I mean it's fine if you enjoy popular things and do typical activities AND you like having lots of casual friendships, but if you have a distinct personality or you prefer to build deeper connections, then "send to all" approach doesn't work.

I started being nicer to people and I realized I found myself taking part in conversations that I simply did not enjoy.

This was a delightful read. I have a few relationships with people on the autism spectrum who struggle with socializing, despite recognizing the desire to be more social. I can point them to this blog.

> “do your hobby with other people, frequently”.

I think it's decent advice, but from my experience, it can take years to make friends that way. I practiced various sports my whole life in the context of sport clubs (martial arts, climbing, snowboarding, swimming...). The way it worked for me is that after months, sometimes years of chitchatting with same people over and over, I barely made any good friends from that context. I did make a bunch of "acquaintances". Definitely better than staying home, but not a silver bullet.

Often i sit around a coffee shop where i work frequently as a remote employee, and I think to myself, "there could be another person here that i have the capacity to be really good friends with but i will probably never know it." And I think about how that's probably true of other people in that coffee shop.

The engineer in me wants to believe some technological solution to finding and connecting with potentially great friends is out there, waiting to be uncovered. But of course, an engineer would say that.

Yes it's very easy to just let things sit at the "acquaintance" level. You know people at the gym, or at work, or at whatever recurring thing that brings you together. But to extend that to friendship, you need to invite them to do something outside of that. Get lunch, come over for dinner, game night, movie, whatever you're into. And then they need to reciprocate at least somewhat evenly. If this doesn't happen it's not really a friendship. And (in my experience) it's very rare for adults to progress beyond the "acquaintance" stage.

The unstated bit is that you have an incidental excuse to talk to them (compared to cold approaching in other contexts) but you still need to talk to them. Everything depends on you making the effort.

I don't think is a viable strategy for building a social life. Gym attracts asocial weirdos (not an insult, I happen to be one). I would consider getting a really hobby or switching jobs. There's a lot of turnover in the food service industry, plenty of chances to meet new people. If you're an unemployed CS grad what do you have to lose? The best thing though would be finding a romantic partner and just devoting yourself to that person, instead of moving from one fleeting friendship to another.

This came across as a little odd and nerdy, but I'm actually really glad you shared your internal dialogue around this. It gives me more empathy for socially anxious (or just socially inexperienced) folks. Although the way you're starting out is kind of nerdy and overanalyzing, I'm sure these interactions will come naturally if you keep it up. Connecting with people is a very worthwhile effort and it's great that you're doing it.

In particular, the "rejection" will stop feeling awkward. I have random little one-or-two sentence exchanges with people several times per day, and usually it doesn't go beyond that, but I don't experience this as failure or rejection. I only engage further with the people who show (by words, body language, etc.) that they're genuinely interested in a conversation. For me, it's less than half.

The gym is an ok place, but not a great place, for what you're trying to do. Hiking clubs, running clubs, CrossFit gyms, rock-climbing gyms, and volunteer groups are all better options. The baseline level of socialization is very high in these places, whereas if you look around at a gym, most people have their headphones on, and are doing their own workout, so there's few natural opportunities to start a conversation.

Also, try to find people who are social and have lots of friends. If they like you they'll introduce you to their friends, which is a lot easier than starting cold. Don't be afraid to talk to women. Most of the people I know who are really good at connecting people are women.

I have to admit, this is really hard for me to relate to. I mean, I get social anxiety, but I've always made such a massive effort to overcome those feelings that I never (rarely) just give into them.

A couple of my best friends today I met just standing in line and striking up conversation. It's kind of wild how often people will avoid just conversing with random people in line, but when everyone is open to it, it's pretty cool... Especially if you're going to be waiting a while for a movie, concert, etc anyway.

I've had a couple panic attacks in my life... one when I was set to move to another state... I was keeping my old apartment, but the plan was to move myself then my stuff in a month or so... my car was packed and ready, my fridge was emptied and my place was about 80% packed. But every time I actually got ready to walk out the door, I'd get so nauseated and throw up... after about a day and a half, I got hungry and decided I was going to get something to eat and head out... in my mind I decided just to drive in the direction I needed then once out of the area had lunch and kept going.

Best "friendmaker" hobby I know is sailing.

It's in general a very newcomer friendly hobby, which is both important as a newcomer yourself as well as for meeting new people once you are into it. It's naturally collaborative so you have to communicate, not very intense so there's a good amount of chill time, and in the cases where small-talk doesn't turn up interesting topics you can always talk about sailing itself.

I live in a small town and I have noticed that I just have be outside and look available. I may be gardening, washing my car or just hanging, and people will randomly stop to start conversations, or just say "hey". That reminds me of our grandparents and how they used to just sit on the front porch and someone would see them, start chatting, and maybe come in and have tea. We've lost those moments of availability.

>however, according to Reddit, there’s a number of people who want to be left alone and can be irritated if you interrupted their workout to talk.

My suggestion would be not to read social advice on public websites on the internet, especially on Reddit, because per public internet, everything is not okay/forbidden, everyone should mind their own business, choose the safest and the most inoffensive action in every possible social situation. Public places such as reddit are full of terminally online socially awkward people who are very unrepresentative of people in real life. Also, there are incentives to recommend the safest course possible because then you won't get downvoted by haters. I don't even say to take advice there with a grain of salt. I say it's probably better not to read such stuff because your brain might subconciously internalize that people think like this even though actully, in real physical world, it works differently.

This is such a wonderful template for people who struggle with interacting with strangers.

A combination of growing up in a very isolated place, and being introverted resulted in me struggling to talk to strangers for my whole life.

I think the real takeaway here, for socially anxious folks, is that like every other skill, it sucks to start but if you do the reps you get better! In the last few years IVE gotten miles better at talking to strangers, mostly thanks to travelling and just forcing myslef to practice.

The thing I try to remember is: "Almost everyone is actually just like me. If a nice stranger asked me some genuine questions I'd love to chat".

The challenge for me was just not knowing what to ask.

Some of my favorite questions:

During transit/hostels: "Where were you going?", and then "why did you go there?", "what are your plans while you're here", "what was your favourite thing you did?", "Where is your home?", ask for recommendations of things to do in their town, country, the place they just visited.

These have let me meet locals, be given tours of the city, have great restaurant recommendations and heaps of great conversations.

At bars/ in line for the toilet etc: I basically always just default to "Do you live here, or are you travelling?" You can then use the questions above.

People love if they've been to your country or a place you've been and you can ask them specific stuff about their trip. Good chance nobody they know ever asked any decent questions because they hadn't also been to that place.

Once you get someone talking it's a whole other skill to deepen the relationship, but I'm still working on that one

To me as someone also "deeply afraid of irritating someone or being in awkward situations", it sounds like this project is greatly expanding the surface on which awkward situations can happen? How do you decide if you should wave to the person or ignore them? Isn't it tiring? Don't you wish to be anonymous again?

Am I too pessimistic, or did anyone else notice the fact that you got everything you wanted with 'the only other asian guy'. Race matters in friendships more than we realize? I feel if it was a gym full of asian people (or a neighborhood with more asians) it would be way easier for you to socialize and make new friends.

Wow this is a really cool thought! I never thought about whether I or the other Asian guy was biased toward each other. Jtarii is right that I mostly approached him because it's slightly unusual for someone to be Asian at my gym and it would be easy to bond over. I think being the same race can help but it's ultimately up to the people in the friendship. Most of the other Asian people I talked to didn't really initiate more conversations after the first converation, unlike "the other Asian guy"

It's more they share a unusual trait that is easy to bond over.

Could be anything really, race, disability, height, metallica t-shirt or whatever.

1. Its all in your head. 2. Lead with your heart and instincts- nurture this and the magic happens. 3. Dont take any negative reactions personally- they may be "somewhere" else dealing with shit in their head. But the "wave" you sent them will do its job anyway. 4. The level of creativity that can be applied to this problem is endless! For example.. the idea of them coming to you (harder than going to an existing group/event) but has its benefits.

Experiment that worked for me : I now live in Buenos Aires , and missed playing ultimate frisbee.. so i posted around in various expat groups and craigslist.. "Ultimate Frisbee en Palermo! Beginners wanted - Experts welcomed" link to a youtube explainer vid.

Experiment 2: random street portraits with phone or digital handheld camera - followed up with a "who are you?" existential question (off record)

5. Always say thank you

@OP

> Comes with a friend to workout. I think she's from Columbia

In case you continue talking to her: Colombians are rather particular about their country's spelling. They will usually frown when you spell it incorrectly, that is with a U instead of an O, and label you as stereotypical gringo / US American because of that. (Adding the "US" prefix here because I can already hear my Colombian friends complain that they, too, are American… :-))

> Unfortunately, most of the friends I’ve made are busy on the weekend. They’re taking trips to visit loved ones, going to the bar (I’m not that into drinking)

Is it really hard drinking that they do or just socializing? In the latter case just pick a bar with some non-alcoholic drinks you like.

> In case you continue talking to her: Colombians are rather particular about their country's spelling. They will usually frown when you spell it incorrectly, that is with a U instead of an O, and label you as stereotypical gringo / US American because of that. (Adding the "US" prefix here because I can already hear my Colombian friends complain that they, too, are American… :-))

Oh shoot! Thanks for letting me know. I'll correct it when I get home.

> Is it really hard drinking that they do or just socializing?

Hm I actually don't know. I kinda just assumed that it was hard drinking. I think I should give it a fair shot though. I'll see if there are any bars with non-alcoholic drinks

Meeting and talk to people is a learned behavior. It took me a while in my 20s to get comfortable talking to new people. I'm determined to not let my kids struggle with the isolation that can come with social anxiety. My wife and I are working with my 14 year son to develop those skills. Between a couple books and his therapist (everyone should have one!) he's working through it, and has gone from being one of the shy-est kids to having the confidence to go up to a person and startup a conversation. He has a couple openers he uses to get a conversation going. It's finally clicked how much a small compliment can break the ice with boys and girls. He likes the feeling he gets when he gives someone a compliment and they brighten up.

This is cool. The plan written as algorithm. Pro-activity is the key. Usually, people like to stay in their comfort zone. This guy was searching for his, and found it.

I wonder, why he did not have any friends from the years of studying. Usually, this is the place friendship forever happen :)

I am happy for him :)

my two best friends from BA and MA moved away, so I can clearly explain why someone might not have friends from university time (-:

Kudos to the author for making friends. I have to say, though, that I'm with the Redditors on this. I go to the gym to focus solely on my workout, and that's it. I'll nod and smile to the other regulars, but conversation is simply not on the menu.

I was curious to get a sense for the overall "success rate" at a glance, so I uploaded the author's data as a spreadsheet and color-coded the conversations based on length (short=red, medium=yellow, long=green) with the help of Claude:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VqMF0xWzJMXWNndeY4P1...

It's particularly nice if you zoom out so you can see all the rows at once.

I hope the author doesn't mind - if you do please tell me and I will take it down!

Instead of a gym another options are joining volunteer groups, a fraternity order (Oddfellow / Rebekahs), a local D&D meetup or local motorcycle club. Sharing a common interest is the easiest way to make new friends.

> “do your hobby with other people, frequently”

> On paper, the gym seemed like the perfect opportunity to meet people since I would go there nearly every day

Yeah, the gym is the authors interest.

My advice is to go to nature and leave the built environment. You are anxious because you are living in an artificial environment which is not doing you any favors. When you arrive in a calmer place you will find different people and greater peace. Moving leaves, the sound of wind and birds, sunshine on your skin, fresh air, the smell of the earth after rain, distant views: these are things that make us feel happy and safe due to evolutionary affinity. You don't get them on a concrete cliff in an apartment or lifting in a room with commuter phone zombies and 'roid droids.

Or just nicer cities. Most American cities are hostile to human enjoyment. Filled with noisy cars and combustion exhaust.

There are plenty of cities around the world built for people to walk around, without all the noise, stress, and air pollution. Cities and people themselves aren’t noisy.

The burgers look amazing, I'm happy for the author and happy that someone is finally acting on that advice and sticking with it. My sense is that people tend to not see rewards within a very short timespan and give up, and sometimes didn't even care to be there in the first place, so they give that up too, sort of missing the whole authentic part and failing to escape the transaction loop.

Gotta find a few things you enjoy for the long-term that exposes you to people regularly, that you'd be doing anyway, and open yourself up to meeting new people and developing strong connections.

For those for whom the gym seems too intimidating to start convos with strangers, another option is to try spotting and signing up to the hobbies where social interaction comes naturally, if not even unavoidably. Things like amateur choir singing (which I do), amateur folk dancing groups, sports clubs where people train in interactive groups (a cross-country ski club in my case), etc. -- these give regularity and allow the persisting social interactions with the same people over longer periods of time to form into true friendships.

> “Ignored people I knew from class instead of saying hi because I didn’t know for sure if they remembered me even though the class had only 10 people in it”

This amuses me because it’s the exact reverse of my anxiety. I’m pretty bad at remembering the identities of people I may have briefly interacted with a few times in a situation like class or work, so I’m afraid of the “person from class” remembering me and me not remembering them and being offended. Like, “How about that exam last week” and me being like, “uhhh do we have a class together?”

I spent several years living in Mississippi. As someone who was fairly introverted upon arriving in the Deep South, I had that hammered out me pretty quickly, during every opportunity for social interaction. It's just part of the culture to engage. I think my time in that area was a bit of a mixed bag, but that one change was for the better, and it has led to wealth of relationships since. Most people yearn for some bit of connection, and it's not that difficult to be the catalyst.

Yeah, the weight floor can be hit or miss with regards to striking convos with strangers. Many of the people there want to make friends too, but many just want to focus on their workout.

Two related contexts that I've found to be much more friendly for this:

1. Climbing gyms, for reasons mentioned previously

2. The sauna! Actually very ideal for convos with strangers. Max overlap time is ~15 minutes, people are generally relaxed, no phones to distract and if it doesn't go well either party can always leave.

This is how social life starts, dont wanna spoil it but its full of wonderful and confusing stuff. If i may i suggest you to try some rejection selftherapy where you walk to random spots u think will say no, who knows maybe u get a few yeses u thought were impossible. As u long as u are good and nice and ur intentions are pure, and if you are willing to correct the mistakes u will make in the future, to learn from them as much as possible, u will come far. Just dont forget to have fun.

Hell yeah.

Observation: people act like this challenge is unique to the young generation, but it certainly affected me (millennial). It was a long, scary process of getting comfortable talking to people. It's still hard! And I have to re-learn it in different phases of life:

>talking to people at school

>talking to people in college

>talking to girls at bars

>getting over the idea that I don't/shouldn't talk to girls at bars anymore, post-marriage

>talking to other parents, male or female, once becoming a parent

all different lessons, all challenging. all worth the effort.

I agree but unfortunately there are more and more young people who seem to think that not doing this challenge is okay :(

You go to the gym to lift. Not to talk. You may talk shortly if it is related to something you need to continue your workout. Apart from that you do not talk. End of story.

I used to authoritatively state rules that existed in my own head. I no longer do this.

I always liked busting through the little social candy shell in the gym. Offering to let people work in on a scarce piece of equipment could lead to chit-chatting about whatever. It's nice! When you have about 3 minutes to rest in between sets there's time to let someone else work and talk a bit.

Good advice generally. But please, not at the gym. All gyms have a different vibe but mine is almost strictly no talking. We go there to workout, not to chat. Everyone locked in, headphones on, no nonsense. I've been going for years and I can count on one hand the number of conversations I've witnessed.

But the flipside is, I see the same gym crowd at the coffee shop next door and we always have a good chat there. Context matters.

"Her barbell is a special women's barbell."

FYI, it was probably just a regular women's weightlifting barbell. They are somewhat lighter, and have a thinner grip. Maybe she's serious about her weightlifting training.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_weightlifting#Barbell

While I admire the proactive approach, I just can't stop thinking how wrong all of this feels and that your situation is just a symptom of our modern, deracinated society. Your grandparents didn't have to think about all this. They just lived in their community, had lifelong friends and a family without consciously making an effort not to be lonely.

I interpret the OP's quest as just that, a personal quest. Some of the comments here however are just out of this world.[0] I almost would have made one like that myself but I read the article.

I appreciate the commenters as spice for the casserole. So that's why I upvoted it: a well-spiced casserole.

[0] Sure, plenty of us here are into social engineering.

Nice! I have been struggling to make friends at my current gym after moving to a new country, people seem way less friendly at just this gym which feels weird. Debating switching gyms because of it.

For socializing i usually go out dancing, long raves are usually good and gay guys are often very happy to talk, probably helps that I take my shirt off. Just need to keep out from the dark room from now on.

OP, if you're up for trying something different, curling is an extremely social sport that welcomes newcomers. There's a very active club in Utica. https://sites.google.com/uticacurlingclub.org/uticacurlingcl...

Good for the author for finding some success. I'd recommend seeking a significant other, somehow that sounds less daunting that making friends past 30. Cool roommates are friend-ajacent and help with loneliness; I had a cool roommate for a while until he moved in with his girlfriend, after which I was deeply lonely until I met my now wife.

So glad to see such constructive and supportive reception of your stellar initiative. Half expected people to flame this kind of genuine reaching out for connection we can all (I hope) identify with, as somehow selfish. It is not, and this is a wonderful act of persona growth and humanity that should be more normalised. Well done.

I relate to the amount of `I didn't know what to say so I left` in this post and don't know what to do about it.

> activities suggested by r/Syracuse like volleyball and trivia night require you to already have friends.

Most big cities will have rec leagues that are popular with people in their 20s. Find a league that has a team happy hour after, I live in a transient city and I've made a few friends from people who get placed on my teams.

Please don't let Reddit warp your perception of reality. It is just a corner of the web full of awkward and negative people (and bots these days). In real life, there is always people socialising at gyms, especially small ones, even received a random compliment a couple of weeks ago by someone I never met.

Wonderful idea to document, share and even have positive outcomes.

The author would probably love this YT channel which is all about helping others come to the same realization as he did: https://www.youtube.com/@socialanimal

Weird seeing Syracuse here.

One thing I have learned is that there are inviters and invitees for friends groups. Most people kind of just sit around and wait for things to happen. Some other people will make plans and invite people. Taking the initiative and talking to people first is the way to go, and looks like it worked out.

Pro tip: introduce your friends to your other friends. Build a network. Networks get stronger as the number of connections increases, i.e. as more people in that network know each other. People are more excited to hang, bc they know more people, and the hangs are more exciting. And hangs become more frequent, because more people can initiate. And it makes awkward moments less common, too.

This is much more durable, reliable, and (quite frankly) fun than the hub-and-spokes model of friendship, where you just have a bunch of 1-on-1 catchups with people who know you but not each other.

Also, it's somewhat easy to do! In this guy's story, this could be as simple as, "Hey I want to get a few of us from the gym together for dinner sometime. Would you be down?" People are usually more receptive to this than they are to a 1-on-1 invite, too.

I've started the same, but instead of the gym I go to random meetup events. Which feels easier since most of them are exactly for talking to strangers. Also went bars sometimes with people from the group. I have to get more confident about exchanging contact information though, only did that twice.

Love this. Need more of this. This "don't talk to me, ever" is an absolute cancer in our society.

each place has different social dynamics. from my experience, working out at a gym isn't the exactly an easiest way to make friends. I've also frequented gyms in the past but there were moments that I needed to focus alone, otherwise couldn't get the gain I needed. the activity itself can become a social constraint in some cases.

when I've joined a social dance community, I was almost forced to talk and stand close with strangers. It is an emotional rollercoaster; it's all happy when I've met nice people but I've felt helpless when I had to dance/interact with people that I don't like, for whatever that is.

I've also practiced some type of acrobatics/solo dance for years and it is somewhere in between.

I think some type of intimacy heatmap can be made with all these activities.

I can't recommend going doorknocking for a cause you care about, enough. Its maybe a half-day, you'll find most people aren't like the angry commenters on twitter, you'll meet people in your community and it makes you more confident talking to strangers!

Somewhat related: Patrick Winston's famous MIT How to Speak lecture. He's been giving this talk for 4 decades

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unzc731iCUY

Its easier to be kind when god has given you everything -- looks, money, fame. But it takes a really good heart to be kind when you have nothing. Often such people are filled with hatred because the world dint offer them anything.

I think the important thing here is you weren't just approaching completely cold but people who you've seen a few times before, which then somewhat makes sense. I think if someone approached completely cold in gym it might not come of as well.

Someone once came over to tell me I was using a machine wrong and I thanked them, collected my things, and left. Haven't been back to a gym in two years! But to be honest I enjoy body weight exercises and cycling better anyway.

It absolutely delights me to see someone overcome something that is hard for them. We all have them. When I read about someone succeeding like this, I look at myself and find the next one on the (long!) list and decide to work on it.

> Ignored people I knew from class instead of saying hi because I didn’t know for sure if they remembered me even though the class had only 10 people in it

This hit painfully hard. I feel spied on.

This is the nerdiest way to go about this, I love it. Good job OP! If you're interested in old video games or trading card games, see if there are any card or used game shops near you. The people there tend to be cool

compliment people - if you're unlikely to see them again. just being kind goes a long way.

if you see them frequently - just acknowledgement at first goes a long way before saying something. i.e the head nod | smile

Cool article. Love some genuine positivity.

I cna't say I would imitate him. It would feel some awkward to me afterwards when you see the people training again but don't interact anymore lol

Great writing - and happy for you that you seem to have made some friends!

> activities suggested by r/Syracuse like volleyball and trivia night require you to already have friends

That's not really the case for volleyball

Most cities have drop-in where you just show up and form teams

1. I just spent the weekend with a mens wellness group called "Fishing for Good" highly recommended if anyone wants to make new friends.

2. I love this.

3. It is hard to make adult friends! I loved this post.

I can't stop thinking about the amount of people they engaged with simply never to be seen again. Are gym membership commitments a lot less serious than I remember these days?

You should try this in Germany. You'll probably get arrested.

I don't go to the gym much but that is one place where I would be VERY careful trying to strike up a confirmation and heaven forbid tapping someone on the shoulder.

    > Ignored people I knew from class instead of saying hi because I didn’t know for sure if they remembered me even though the class had only 10 people in it

This one really hits home for me. Many times in my life, I have been on the receiving end of "being ignored" by people I knew. It fucking hurts. The more it happens, the more I withdraw socially.

Thank you, I'm also lonely and this article gave me hope.

Gosh, I was guilty on this account just an hour ago.

I just came back from a midday walk in my neighborhood. Headphones on, walking along, when I hear someone call out — I don't quite catch what. I turn around, and there's a neighbor with a kid (not my street, so I don't know her), but she's from my community. At first I thought she was teaching the toddler — maybe 2 years old — how to say hello. So I'm just standing there, nonplussed. She repeats the greeting. I'm still confused about whether she's talking to me or demonstrating for the kid. Finally, a little louder: "I was just saying hello" — except she used the greeting from our community. It finally clicks, I laugh, and say "oh yeah, same to you."

I probably would have handled it differently if I hadn't had headphones in, or if I'd been more present, or just more socially aware from my early days. Still thinking about it and then I saw this thread.

love this! and the masses of upvotes show how important this topic is. let's all take action and get social

Good on ya! You did really well. 10/10. I don't think gym really is the only option but you made it work well so who cares.

I read this and feel happier for it. Keep it up OP! I like imagining a world where more people are curious, kind, and open to connecting.

On flip side had switch gyms to be among strangers becomes turning on gym socialization really tanked my training.

Such a feel good post, thanks for sharing OP!

I'm going to keep my response very simple. (and not talk about society, cell phones etc... )

This post WINS Hacker News for the month!

"Guy who was doing exercise where you pick up barbell and lift it above your head."

For anyone curious it is called snatch

Calling other people "strangers" only means you are a stranger to yourself.

"Know thyself."

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I've never done crossfit but it feels like it might be conducive for socializing given the format.

That is a good looking homemade burger

Crazy that this basically inept attempt at making friends still got so much attention on HN lol

Go to a bar (in America). Sit on a stool. Say "hello" to the person next to you.

I talk to everyone, everywhere and find it one of the most humane things to do actually.

> Old gay with tattoo of Osiris eye

Not sure if that's a typo or not in Week 3...

As the next one is

> Old guy who brought his own towel

This is absolutely bonkers to me. We're not here to be scientifically experimented on or to make you feel better about yourself. The very idea that OP learned about places and activities that people participate in explicitly to be social and, instead, chose to touch people when they're not clearly wanting to chat is just wild.

What do we have to do to discourage you from touching us?

I mean I guess I'm glad that you're trying to resolve your anxiety. Self improvement is good for some people. I just wish it weren't at the expense of others.

Good on you for doing that. I did the same thing when I was in college, but in my case, I did it to get better at approaching women.

I made it a goal to talk to at least one woman per day on the train in NYC (hard mode) and say Hi to at least three.

I don't remember how long I kept this up for; I want to say I did this for three months, but it might have been shorter.

Like you, some people wanted nothing to do with me while others were down to chat.

While this made it easier for me to make the first move, it helped me massively at starting and keeping up conversations with anyone about nearly anything. This is probably a large reason why I'm in tech sales these days.

That being said, this didn't change my default personality. I'm still very introverted, very comfortable with hanging out by myself, have trouble not taking rejection personally (though I'm much better at this than I was back then), and, most importantly, absolutely hate talking to people at the gym, almost all of the time!

(My workouts are 90-120 minutes long on most days, which is a huge chunk of time that I'd rather spend coding, working or catching up on HN/Reddit. I immediately think of how much time I'm sacrificing whenever I'm approached at the gym and stonewall. I'm also like this on airplanes. The joys of constantly feeling behind and stressed for time!)

Or simply move to Latin America or talk to them. Socialization is natural and easy

This is awesome lol I love the stories for each person. Great to see you trying OP!

A recent psychology book covers the science of talking to strangers: "Once Upon a Stranger: The science of how 'small' talk can lead to a Big Life" by Dr. Gillian Sandstrom. Generally there seems to be quite a growing interest in researching both talking to strangers, weak ties, etc.

The book tells stories about her experience as an introvert and her journey in coming to love the interactions, using humility, humour, and science (both hers and that by other researchers).

A few points I like made by Dr. Sandstrom:

- low stakes way to create a sense of community, as well as addressing social anxiety that is more pervasive these days

- the existence of a "liking gap", where people like you more than you think

- there is value in these "weak" interactions, even if they're small

- most conversations don't go anywhere, and that's okay. Few are outright failures

- acronyms like QuICK (Question, In Common, Kindness) to think of conversation starters

- [EDIT: added] it can be easier to talk to strangers about some topics, rather than to close connections

- [EDIT: added after reading some other comments] it doesn't need to be about gaining "influence", "networking", etc.

[Note: I know the author, but it doesn't change the fact it's a good and useful (IMHO) book :)]

I guess I should reach out to somebody in my badminton class this afternoon!

Charming! Reminded me of "Naive. Super" by Erlend Loe, which I loved.

Nothing is weirder than devising a scientific process for making friends.

You only (mostly) talk to guys? Waste of time.

This is one of my favorite posts ever on HN. Thank you for sharing.

Last year I was living in a hostel (basically a very cheap hotel) for a few months. About a month in I realized I'd probably be stuck there for a while and started to make myself at home.

I started buying dishes for the shared kitchen. People kept "borrowing" them, so new guests would come, cook something, and have no fork. So I made sure there were always dishes.

The kitchen was a dreadful place. Deathly quiet. This strange tension in the air. Everyone was avoiding eye contact. There was a kind of toxic miasma about the place, and the unspoken agreement was to leave it undisturbed.

I, the heretic: I would greet people! I would greet people who were in the same space as me.

I am told this was considered normal, by our ancestors. In my case, it was partly "it's morally wrong not to greet them", and partly social anxiety around strangers. (In both cases, my autism ;)

So I solved that problem by just saying hello to everyone. I made the tension go away by saying hello.

Two weeks later I had like twelve friends. They started talking to each other, and a whole community formed in the kitchen. It was great.

I thought that was pretty cool. It also got me thinking about how, if I had been able to find a studio apartment or something, I might have ended up with zero friends instead.

In the context of the loneliness epidemic, I have to wonder if the shared kitchen is one answer. More precisely: the absence of a private one. (It sounds harsh, but the alternative... we are currently living through.)

I love this clip from the 90's TV show Northern Exposure on the same subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2N4VWIbCI

Here's how I made friends in the real world:

1) pickup basketball

2) aerobics/yoga/group fitness

3) triathlons

4) work

Other Asian Guy's burger looks good as hell.

Always surprising to learn most people are cool

> Old gay with tattoo of Osiris eye

Was this a typo or … ?

> Pretended I didn’t know a childhood friend when they said hi because I didn’t know how to act around people I used to know

In high school because people thought I was a snob or something because of my social awkwardness. I love talking to people but absolutely hate initiating conversations. I love looking people in the eye when they're talking and hate looking at people as a I pass, so I usually don't even know who is walking near me. It's kind of crippling (and this is after it's gotten much better over time).

what if your an engineer who likes his alone time >>> and a micro home gym? ))

Well done! Inspirational.

Just go to church, tons of chances to make genuine friends. Won't be despised if don't have same believe, they would only hope you had, but doesn't matter to making deeper connections. I saw non believers joined our young adult group just to social and hang out, it's perfectly fine.

Another trick is that people are usually nicer to you if you talk to them after having gone to the same place at the same time for a while. If you smile and waive at them a few times before you go and talk to them, you've built a bit of familiarity by nature of being a "regular" and aren't just cold approaching people you've never seen.

really love this post!

So thankful that people do this and chronicle this...our society is getting more and more isolated, it feels. This (I FEEL LIKE, could be wrong, I'm kinda a boomer now haha) was more common 'back in the day' and now some people do it as a social experiment.

Reminds me approach that you get in nearly every book on "How to meet girls".

Systematic, efficient.

Played this game myself. And I did it when moved to the US with a limited English and lack of understanding of the local culture and traditions.

After a few years of dedicated practice, moved me from the state that author describes to the complete lack of fear talking to strangers, I can easily make nearly ever conversation warmer, deeper and more relaxed.

------

A couple more comments, based on personal experience:

[1] It works better if place where you meet is your deep comfort zone, a very familiar place

- gym, if you are going there for some time, know where each type of equipment is. - dance venue that you were going dancing for a while - art class - etc

[2] It helps a lot if you are quite proficient in the activity, expertise brings respect, and higher social status by itself, even when you do not talk to anyone.

[a] in the gym ideal technique > strength > looks / size of your muscles.

- Third class in powerlifting, based on Soviet grading system is a threshold, passing which life changes (question of months, maybe a year). You get more respect from men and curiosity from women, and you get more confident, because you got stronger: https://www.sportscategory.info/en/powerlifting - As your shoulders get broader, fat fat percentage goes down - it improves your appearance -> your confidence -> helps as well.

[b] Dance venue is a great place to meet people and address your fears / issues. Rule of the game - during the class before the social part teacher makes you switch partners => you will be forced to introduce yourself to the partner, this person cannot turn away and will need to reply, introduce themselves.

Later when social part starts - people switch partners every dance => - you start with inviting for a dance people whom you already met during the introductory class. - In 3 hours of social dancing you dance with 20+ people - As your skill grows (question of weeks-months) and dancing with you is not torture anymore, but quite the opposite - it is enjoyable => you get more relaxed, people want to dance with you => conversations start all the time - In dancing, as a man you lead, and this transfers to other activities (helped to become a lecturer teacher in University), but you also better lead the conversation. I.e. it is not a random exchange of information anymore, but you can vary it's direction and emotional component.

--- [3] Some places are better than others.

It is good to go to the gym, to get more friends, but not directly. I do not like talking to people in the gym, I suspect that other people as well.

you are recovering between sets, focussing on the audiobook, moving weights - you are always busy with something. I also heard that women do not like talking to men in the gym as they may feel "no in the best form", i.e. for her - talking to men feels comfortable, when she took shower, picked a cloths that fits her, not when she is sweaty, struggling with weights and sees other ladies in the gym who are more fit.

Places like:

- climbing gym <- very social activity where you solve same problems - trying to climb a route. You can just tell someone who struggled to climb a bouldering problem something like: "Nice!", "Good job!", "Well done", and ask for a tip.

Ot if you already climbed it - give a tip yourself. These are natural openers.

If you climb similar level of problem, you will get stack in the gym in the same spots, taking a break between tries - universe will force you to talk and socialize.

- Dance venue, as I mentioned above - Hikes - any types of group classes: scuba diving, wine tasting, art classes, etc will do the job quite well

Ha! Nerds.

I loved this. And love when someone chats me up at the gym more than just "you using this?". See you around the gym, my guy.

Autism is a hell of a drug.

It's obvious in hindsight but to me its really interesting you can collect data points on the community just by chatting with them. Maybe you could guess, by appearance or behaviour or something, whether most people at the gym are university students, or gym bros, or something else.

But by chatting with them, the world seems a bit bigger. And even if you don't see them again often, or don't chat again, its just nice that you have some level of familiarity and learn new things you wouldn't know unless you chatted with them. And although sometimes you have that awkward uncomfortable short conversation, every once in a while, you make a new friend. That is life, I suppose.

> I am lonely and have no friends.

...

> Here’s the raw data.

yep, that's the problem. For making friends you have to follow the tennis mindset: don't optimize the outcome, just enjoy the rally.

I don't have much issues talking to people, but I have issues maintaining friendship. I came to the conclusion that my relation to people has been fucked up by sexism and its consequences, probably because I think about it too much.

As a male all my friendship with heterosexual males end up being frustrating and diaappointing. They can behave when you meet them with their partners but whenever you go out with alone they can't help acting like alphassholes making derogatory comments about women they see in the street. In fact even homosexual male oten can't help acting like Neanderthals too. I am not under any illusion that women behave much better when they are in groups but I have had less occasions to hear their comments so keep a more candid view.

I tend to have more interesting experience with women but I always find it skewed. I rarely interact with strangers because I don't want to be that guy they could feel is harassing or mansplaining them.

Two recent examples, funnily both happening while riding my bike: - oveetook a woman on the road riding a bike with a bent drop bar. As I glanced over and said hello I realized that handlebar was flexing at every pedal stroke and knowing the fatigue limit of aluminium I assumed it was alrady cracked and was staying in one piece only with the help of the bar tape. I wanted to warn her about the risk of riding with a handlebar that could break anytime and would have gladly offered her to fix her bike for free as we were close to home and I have some spare parts in mint state basically waiting to be used. But I was so afraid of mansplaining her that I just ler her go, hoping she would not lose her teeth in the near future. - last sunday, after a quick stop to take some pictures. When I hoped back on the bike and was progressively accelerating to my cruising speed, two women overtook me. Despite having a friendly hello, I realized later that I was just 2 meters behind and we had more or less the same cruising speed. I was afraid of making them uncomfortable following them as I realizwd one of them glanced several times over her shoulder. In hindsight I should have stopped again foe a minute but I decided to overtake and drop them to save them from that annoyance. They probably thought I was that guy trying to impress them while I was just escaping from an awkward situation.

With non strangers that I know from hobbies or work, I have had great relationships but I have always ended up losing contact. I am even more uncomfortable with those that have a partner as I feel like their is always like a question mark over wether going out with them alone would be seen as trying to date them. I have several ex colleagues that I genuinely wanted to stay in touch that I totally ignored for that very reason after switching job.

Another example is an ex colleague of mine, who was not at the time in a relationship. I had mentionned her to my partner several time as seeing her as a great friend as she had been very kind to me and offered genuine support at a time I was suffering. Since she had moved to another city we always mentionned meeting when we had a chance. Ultimately when planning a road trip with my girlfriend, we envisioned making a stop in that city and my girlfriend asked me if I wanted to message her. But then a few minutes later came THE QUESTION. How does she look? Is she pretty? I knew from that moment that it was a lost case and I just never messaged her and completely lost touch when I closed my social media accounts.

I am really shy and i dont touch grass, i would rather do some c++

> One of these people is someone I will refer to as “the other Asian guy”. I got a lot closer to him than expected.

Oh those bromances ...

Just ask for a spot when you see someone available.

You humble yourself, you grow as a person by practicing communication, and you get to try to lift a little heavier as you know someone is there to help you when you eventually fail a rep (which is important if you're trying to bulk or get stronger). You thank them after and maybe even give/get a fist bump. That's it. Do this often while being mindful of people and their own workouts. One day, someone will ask YOU for a spot. Oblige.

Asking for a spot is absolutely a frequent and everyday occurrence at pretty much any gym. Most people are actually pretty honored when they are asked to spot someone's PR attempt.

You don't really have to make a ton of small talk unless both parties are open to it, but you'll get to know the regulars who will eventually talk to you.

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