Windows 11's second-chance setup dialogs hurt IT, drain productivity | Hacker News Reader

Windows 11's second-chance setup dialogs hurt IT, drain productivity

theregister.com

106 pointsgeekinchief70 comments

SCOOBE has been a thing since Windows 10. I got hit with it again just this week on a machine that's run W10 for nearly half a decade. "Let's install O365! And move your stuff to OneDrive! And replace Firefox with Edge! And use your Android phone to connect to your PC!"

And this is why I will never build another Windows box again once I replace my VR headset, nor have I recommended Microsoft products in Enterprises for several years, now. It's still my area of expertise, but the company is - somehow - more hostile to its customers than Oracle.

With Valve launching a VR headset, hopefully we'll see Linux be a viable option for that

I’d guess that’s what GP was referring to. I’ll also be a day 1 preorder.

They confirmed it is, but their reply is marked dead and vouching didn't do anything.

What I'm really interested to see is if that works ends up being very Steam Frame specific, or if we also see Linux doing better for the higher end non-standalone headsets.

Not that I would buy one (a GPU to run it is not in the gaming budget) I just think it would be cool to have Linux open up as an option for more use cases.

Yeah, same sentiment. If at all possible, use linux on the enterprise side. Virtually all of the main domain infrastructure can be migrated. Granted, it's actually very painful, especially for those uninitiated.

So there's that.. But once it's done, I imagine life'd be much smoother for a veery long time.

It's immensely painful if you insist on AD and Group Policy management. If you don't mind dropping that in favor of something like Centrify, or you use web-based product suites (like Google Workspaces, Nextcloud, etc), then it's a lot easier to switch.

One of the reasons I no longer work on windows

1. Log onto a server

2. Need a browser to run some stupid tool, everything besides edge is removed

3. Edge shows "setting up profile" with multiple steps (cant be skipped ofc) and after setup it goes to new tab showing shit ton of ads and stuff lagging the RDP session

explain that, macroslop

My favorite part of that dance is, "Do you want to import from Chrome? [no] Should we import your data from chrome? [no] Ok, time to import your data from Chrome. [skip]" It asks you three times right in a row. Really weird.

My favourite part is saying "Reject all" to the cookies and sh*t on my new tab before I even open any website.

I like the word macroslop. But I think we give Microsoft too much credit with that word. To me it is just miniscule in thinking - so the name I use is microslop, the spam-AI company. Showing ads is what these microslop companies do - by abusing the end user.

They are entshittifying their products at scale

Can you still curl the chrome installer and run it as a user without elevated permissions? Seems a lot faster.

  Invoke-WebRequest 'https://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-latest' -OutFile firefox_setup.exe

Technically yes, but then you wait for the download + install + you have to select your ad preferences, also non-skipable

Of course, did you think fleeing from Microslop to Google would spare you the ads?

> One of the reasons I no longer work on windows

Amen. I can't take the abuse anymore so I run Linux at home and if I have to interact with Windows I try through Wine before firing up a VM or breaking out the Surface that mostly collects dust. I'd rather run ReactOS in production than use Windows 11.

This is so extremely annoying when paired with the forced auto restarts. Here is how it works:

1. I walk away from the computer with a bunch of my tabs and programs running. I also have a couple of servers running (docker compose).

2. Microsoft decides my work is worthless and restarts the PC to install updates to fix their own shoddy programming.

3. After 3-4 restarts, it finally drops back into the login screen. So my open apps, tabs, servers are all gone, and will not be running. Basically means I cannot rely on the PC being online if I am outside.

4. And on top of that, even when I enter the password, it will pretend to login, but stops on this spam screen with the anti-pattern "remind me later" button. Every single time. I've told them no for at least 50 times. Oh and this screen blocks every startup program from loading, even though I have signed in. So I have to clear it before docker will load.

Windows 11 is for video games and Excel, not running docker compose and servers. Windows Server is for running servers.

Linux is for running servers

If you’re some linux hardliner then that’s what your world looks like, sure. Windows Server is for running Windows servers.

Do you think gamers want any of that?

Except developers run docker compose locally all the time.

And even if I am just using Excel, my work still deserves to be respected by the operating system.

My clients didn't get the memo

Have they gotten the memo reminding them “schedule and execute your updates to avoid waking up to a login screen”? I feel sorry for you having to work with clients who run production workloads on Windows 11.

  Windows 11 is for video games

Not even that anymore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJEo6Kb6Rhg

Coverage is still partial because some VERY popular games do not run on Linux due to anti-cheat

I'd say that coverage is very, very substantial, but incomplete because some games use anti-cheat that is either extremely invasive and heavily relies on Windows internals, or is anti-cheat that the devs have configured to reject running in Proton.

Yes, it's very good. However, basically-every-current-multiplayer-shooter is a big missing category.

BTW as someone increasingly fed up with W11 and thus feeling homeless: how well does VR work?

> basically-every-current-multiplayer-shooter is a big missing category.

Weird. I've been playing many multiplayer shooters from Proton with my Windows-using friends. I suppose this is one of those "am I friends with people who pretty much only play CoD or Fortnite?" things.

Anything you'd want to play runs on Linux.

One that people keep commenting on is Battlefield 6, which has an absolutely perfect user experience in Linux.

If you play it on Windows it's a slow, buggy, crashy, half-finished mess that barely works is just no fun at all.

On Linux, it's perfect. It doesn't work at all, so you don't waste any time trying to enjoy the slow, buggy, crashy, half-finished mess.

Don't Windows Services run behind the login window (when configured to do so)?

Could you set up Docker that way?

I've set it up to run on login. But this screen is special. It blocks everything after login until you accept or remind later it.

Docker runs better on Linux. And Linux doesn't reboot unless told to do so. And you can SSH into it rather than run some sort of long winded GUI. Oh, and it doesn't phone home all the time with 'telemetry'.

I do my work on this PC. And even though almost all of it is on WSL, the rest of the OS just works better than any Linux I've tried. And I'm no stranger to Linux. My first was the Ubuntu Dapper Drake CD they used to mail out for free. So I put up with all the abuse :( I have a fully functional Arch Linux on a secondary SSD, but it's just a pain to deal with all the Bluetooth audio quirks, the uncanny valley GUI, incomplete app support, etc. I'll muster enough willpower one day to fully make the arch boot by default.

I switched to Linux in 2018, and I hear you on the quirks. But now, an LLM can fix basically any quirk you hit. I’ve been surprised multiple times. I’m also on Pop OS, which feels more batteries-included than Ubuntu.

If you disable it as outlined in the article it will not come back IME. It is ridiculous and frustrating that you have to do it, and IMO it's extremely poorly named and placed but it does work at least.

I always disable automatic updates as a group policy and re-enable them when I'm ready to install them for this very reason.

You don't even need to reenable. Manually checking for updates still works.

This is MBAs doing what MBAs are trained to do. If you have a product like Windows with a large userbase that is no longer growing, you put the bare minimum effort into maintaining it while you leverage the large userbase to push growth in other parts of the company (in this case, Office subscriptions, Xbox, and online services). No amount of negative articles or online complaints will stop this because they don't change the incentives that the people in charge have. They don't care about ruining Windows because ruining Windows makes the stock price go up. I feel bad for the people who are stuck on Windows for one reason or another, it's going to be rough from here on out.

I stopped using windows on my devices long ago in favor of Linux but when I periodically have to use it for IT assistance for family I am flabbergasted at how hostile and manipulative it is to the purported owner of the device. I can’t believe things have got this bad.

> I can't believe things have gotten this bad.

"Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome." - Charlie Munger

I'm in the same boat as you, and every time I touch a Windows PC I am again and again surprised at all the junk they put in there by default. Not only Microsoft, but also the OEMs. So much junkware, so many accounts they want you to create, and all without any benefit to the user.

if Windows 11 was launched in late 1998 it would be viewed as a scam or some form of malware

Back in 1998, Microsoft Windows was itself an "ill behaved application" by Microsoft's own definition.

Wow, I didn’t know you could kill these in the registry, will definitely do this. They are absolutely maddening in my case, which is where I only boot into my Windows SSD sporadically, so there seems to be some time out so I get it basically every single time I boot Windows. It’s really not making me want to use it any more than the absolute minimum…

Definitely a dark pattern. However, setup dialogs can be managed using an autounattend.xml answer file, and IT should be able to handle those kind of things. I am assuming the base schneegans [1] will take care of it. If not, it might take a minute to find the actual registry responsible for it and manually add that to the setup scripts.

https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/

If I were a multi-billionaire, I'd pay people to follow around Microsoft executives with a megaphone. They'd just shout "Do you want to save that to OneDrive?!" every few seconds right near their ears. Indefinitely, all day long, all night long. Forever. Of course, there would be no relief. My request wouldn't make sense and there would be nothing they could do to make them cease

Start a GoFundMe! That idea deserves to see the light of day. Also: Follow pretty much every software product manager around Silicon valley with a megaphone shouting "Do you want me to keep shouting at you? [YES | ASK AGAIN LATER]"

No, you gotta give them a chance to tell you to stop! That way you can tell them "pausing setup requests for now" and then go back to harassing them a few minutes later

I highly doubt that Satya Nadella uses Windows, because if he did it would actually be good.

I mean I suppose it's possible he's just delusional, but imagine using Windows and thinking it's an acceptable product. There's simply no way.

He probably gets given a custom build of Windows without all the garbage that the users Microsoft disdains so much get force-fed.

Reminds me of the customer support bat, me and some friends envisioned in a bar - one far away day. It detect swinging motion and a controller in the tip of the bat plays a sound typical of customer support lifetime wasting platitude. "All of your worries are extremely important to us.." "We love our customers and will do anything to help.."

I wish you could write a bill for hours wasted and send it directly to the department that caused that waste. You gained three internal promotion crystals and have been a loss-leader for humanity, congrats, here is your awardcard.

It is time to break free from the microslop tyranny.

Now - I use Linux since about 2004 on my main computer, and I have Win10 on the computer to my left, so it is not that I am 100% Microsoft free. But people need more options here; having Microsoft dominate the desktop system for so many decades, has led to issues. This has to change. And Linux has to become much simpler too. This is where it still fails totally.

Wife just upgraded her laptop, and the newer one has Win11. Of course yours truly was tasked with setting it up, etc.

Oh my, now I get why people complain about advertising in Windows. The relentless noise of the OneDrive and Edge advertisements, riddled with dark patterns, is deafening. It's not like they are notifications, either, but as The Reg article pointed out, they are full-screen things that prevent you from doing anything else.

I have my own W11 setup on my laptop but somehow it never was this spammy. Well, if wifey complains about it when she's using it, I'll say: "There's always Linux...". Let's see if she wants to switch. So far, she has refused.

Unfortunately, Windows' entrenchment means that it's gonna be extremely painful to return to computers that work for the users again. I have personally moved my personal PC to Linux, but what is really needed is a back-to-basics OS that integrates modern usability and design with reduced bloat.

You could only get the funding such a project requires if you promised that it would make an infinite amount of money, which would directly undercut the goals of making a debloated, usable operating system. yay, capitalism.

> But Microsoft is slick, so it’s always possible they won’t work forever.

That's a very gentle framing. Maybe Microsoft should spend less time being "slick".

This is the cue for IT to make the switch from Windows.

...implying that's a decision that IT makes of its own volition, and not because every other department has some one-off piece of software from 20 years ago that's no longer supported because the vendor is out of business but its still "Mission Critical".

There are a large number of IT departments that don't know how to manage anything else. (And a shocking number of windows-only ones that don't really know how to manage windows)

My entire household is finally all-Linux after the last non-technical holdout got fed up with Win 11.

This isn't exclusive to Windows 11, I also got those on Windows 10.

We used to call this a Trojan horse.

It is even worse than the article says. You can, though these dialogs, wind up having folder on your hard drive moved around, have your desktop or other folders which you do not intend to be, cloud-synced. Then you get home and all of a sudden two PCs you mean to keep separate have new apps installed, background changed, etc...

I HATE this window.

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