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Comment by dsign | Hacker News Reader

I was thinking about the upcoming regulation about replaceable batteries in the EU, and couldn't help but think that if I were Apple's CEO this would be a great time to make an orderly exit. Make no mistake, I'm not a fan of i-Devices' non-replaceable batteries, but I can't remember a single device with a lid for batteries on the back that was aesthetically in the same league as an iPhone.

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As far as I know it should be pretty easy for Apple to comply with the regulation. The battery needs to be replaceable with standard or freely available tools and without adhesives. Many of Apple’s devices already meet this standard.

Edit: I'm not sure on the adhesives part. Apple uses an electrically-releasable adhesive in some of their newer products. The MacBook Neo doesn't use battery adhesive at all.

There are considerations in the law for water proofing, device safety, and battery durability (maintaining 80% capacity at 1000 cycles, which Apple already does). They do not require a pop open battery door on every device like it's 2005 again.

Apple already provides repair tools, guides, and replacement parts both to end users and third party technicians.

These regulations are complicated, but they aren't new and Apple isn't being blindsided with some catastrophe here.

What? Which? Huh? Absolutely not. So many of them have adhesives I dont think almost any of them meet your criteria.

I don't think any of the iPhone or iPads do. Their design is pretty tightly coupled to weird shaped, permanently attached batteries, from what I've heard.

I don't know whether the newer electrically-releasing battery adhesives would count, but they do allow cleanly removing and replacing the battery without proprietary tools.

They’re not proprietary but some of them are expensive and somewhat specialized. I don’t think it’ll be really economical for most normal people to self-service many repairs, but it’ll be very viable to have a corner hardware store that can do it for you for cheap. Self-servicing battery replacements ought to be doable with an eyeglass screwdriver though.

I've read that Apple's products fall outside the scope of the regulation because their product batteries can do 1000 cycles and still hit the 80% benchmark.

Even if they can't right now, they certainly can by downrating them a bit.

I'd still like to see them comply with the spirit and make it easy to replace.

And what, exactly, is your knowledge based on? I take it you've designed and shipped a working phone that meets IP68 standards for water intrusion?

Reading some articles about the EU law, which is more complicated than the seemingly popular interpretation that all phones are now going to have tool-free battery doors on the back like it's 2005 again.

To be clear, replaceable battery doesn't mean a lid like phones used to have. It means that you should be able to take the device apart with simple tools and remove the battery and pop in another one.

It actually probably affects other phone companies more than it affects Apple, as some of the others have very poor repairability

The Microsoft Lumia 540 looks remarkably like a modern phone still and it had a fairly easily replaceable battery, because it allowed you to replace the back cover.

There's also the Lumia 920, which is arguably a nicer looking phone than anything Apple current have, also have a fairly easily replaceable battery, requiring you to remove just two screws.

The battery thing doesn’t apply to water resistant devices, so doesn’t matter for iPhone/Apple Watch.

There’s rumors that upcoming iPad models are water resistant, I suspect that’s the motivation for it.

It’s no secret that Apple has for decades wanted a device with no ports at all.

I does apply.

Battery should be sold for 5 years+ after EoS and it still must be replaceable without proprietary tools, nor proprietary parts.

Or out-of-warranty replacement should be available for a rate not to be above X% of the original price for 5+ years after last sale.

Of course the latter can be gamed where they refuse to replace the battery on a cracked phone, even though it could be done and probably work.

> The battery thing doesn’t apply to water resistant devices, so doesn’t matter for iPhone/Apple Watch.

I think that is not true. If you look at article 11.2 b it talks about

"appliances specifically designed to operate primarily in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion, and that are intended to be washable or rinseable"

I don't think that applies to Apple devices. Also these special devices still need a battery replaceable by a professional.

https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT...

Apple Watch seems to apply (it's a dive watch at least sometimes) - but it would be a change to the iPhone to make it a dive phone.

Unlikely they'd want to develop all that just to avoid some battery redesign - the phones last so long now that they should have some headroom.

Didn't the Apple Faithful say the same for usb-c?

The Apple Faithful will always defend whatever Apple does, it's not terribly useful to listen to them.

It's the Apple Faithful who criticize Apple that are worth listening to.

Lightning is a superior physical design to USB-C (can't speak to the electrical part). Much like every major tech battle in history, however [1], the worse solution won because of ubiquity. I'm not particularly thrilled because I've had a USB-C connector irretrievably break off in a port once on a laptop but I'll make that trade for being able to use a single cable for all of my devices.

- Not an "Apple Faithful"

[1] VHS vs Beta, Doom vs Marathon, Zergling vs human, etc

I've never had trouble with usb-c, but have had lightning connectors short out and burn one of the leads, or stop working from dust. Not sure I'd say one is better than the other, but individual experience can really vary on these kind of things. Tough to say one is clearly better imo.

My experience that lighting was by far the best - when everything lightning I had was made by Apple.

As things became available in the after-market quality began to vary.

My biggest issue with USB-C right now is I have some devices that need a really long "tongue" and I can't find a cable with such.

Yeah it seems to be really up to individual experience. I had two apple-made lightning cables that shorted and burned out the leads on the male end of the connector.

> Yeah it seems to be really up to individual experience.

Sure does. Never had a single issue with a lightning cable. Don’t know literally anyone who ever has.

Some individuals I guess just get unlucky.

I'm not sure how they are related. USB-C was not really a technical challenge or had trade-offs. I'm not a hardware engineer but from what I've read, having an easily replaceable battery would degrade the water resistance of the phone.

Same type of concerns were raised about usb-c: more dust collects, worse connector design, would make the phones too thick, etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, there were plenty of people in the more toxic parts of Apple's fanbase decrying USB-C for appearing too fragile, for being forced on them, for having a confusing set of standards (that last one is a fair point).

But I think, among Apple fans, USB-C has generally been a point of 'pride' for the past decade. Designed by Apple, put in a laptop first by Apple, best $10 USB-C-to-3.5mm DAC by Apple, etc.

Whether correct or not, I think Apple fans anticipate more severe tradeoff ramifications with a replacable battery. I think they're different things. (I don't think it's impossible though- the Fairphone has IP 55, I bet Apple can improve on that).

It's funny because Apple said on stage Lightning was their connector for the next decade in 2012 then shipped it for exactly a decade, despite being the first to ship a USB-C device. When they switched to Lightning in 2012, the peanut gallery complaint was Apple making everyone buy new cables and accessories. Either too fast or too slow for their critics with the same timing.

The iPhone 4 was easily disassembled with screwdrivers...

> "easily"

Yoikes!

Yea, the dog shit pentalobe screwdrivers.

The iPhone 4 was not water resistant. I remember owning one and being absolutely freaked out about it getting wet. Talk about an expensive paperweight.

Hey... Blackguardx, your name reminds of someone Ive seen before. Do you happen to play a mobile game named Duet? Also yea lol, I literally disassembled mine after it stopped working (I do with lots of my electronics)

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