People these days letting the car drive, thinking they can spring into action I think are underestimating just how cold their cache lines are getting and the major page fault they're going to take when they try to take over.
And I've seen comments by people that they were letting the car drive itself into a bad situation they could see developing, but didn't jump in to take over right away in anticipation (effectively betting on the car over their own skill but still realizing they had to jump in if the car got it wrong--which is just so incredibly confused).
If you don't pay constant attention, you will never notice when it slips in a bug or security issue
Too bad that project failed.
Airline pilots aren't supposed to take a nap, and there are occasionally articles about the various things that have gone wrong because the pilots weren't paying attention.
I’m in left lane on highway. Tesla ahead of me but quite a ways away.
I realize as I’m driving that the Tesla is moving quite slow for the left lane driving. And before you say it, yes there are lots of people speeding in highway left lanes too.
So - I passed on the right rather than tailgate. Look over and see a guy leaning back in his seat. No hands on wheel. Could’ve been asleep. And driving 10-15 mph slower than you’d expect in that lane.
To your point about using it FSD the way you do, makes total sense to me. Which implies you would also cruise at the right speed depending on the lane you are in, unlike my example.
I wonder what's taught to new drivers about this sort of situation. My intuitive feeling (driving for almost 30 years) is you drive with the flow of traffic when traffic is present. I don't see too many left lane drivers glued to speed limits, but it's obvious when someone is a fast or slow.
Is that code for "the Tesla was following the law by driving within the speed limit and I don't find that acceptable" or what?
> I passed on the right rather than tailgate.
... right, since those are the only two options. Tailgating is just one of the potential valid options to choose from after all.
> And driving 10-15 mph slower than you’d expect in that lane.
So not "slower than the speed limit", but rather "slower than you'd expect". Sigh.
Most highways I drive on exhibit a predictable pattern. Slower folks in right lane. Faster folks in left lane. Maybe those slower folks are at the speed limit, or above, or below. Left lane folks somewhat faster.
Should everyone obey the speed limit? Sure! Hard to argue that point.
My observation was a Tesla driving at - let's call it "right lane speed" in the left lane. Maybe slower. Slow enough that you'd soon see a predictable back-up behind the car - some tailgating, brake usage, etc. The stuff that in my view leads to more accidents, swerving, and phantom traffic that occurs when people pile on each other, use brakes excessively, and end up slowing to a crawl.
FWIW: The "is speeding acceptable" question is somewhat resolved by police. I rarely see people pulled over for speeding within the flow of traffic, vs. somewhat swerving in/out or just driving much faster than everyone.
Don't remember the last time I saw an officer pick a car out of a normally flowing left lane to issue just that one driver a ticket.
I'm asking because I feel I must be missing something, inasmuch as to have my hands on the wheel while not controlling the car is an experience with which I'm familiar from skids and crashes, and thinking about it as an aspect of normal operation makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. (Especially with no obviously described "deadman switch" or vigilance control!)
It's just nice having a 'second set of eyes' in a sense. It's also very useful when driving in unfamiliar cities where much of my attention would be spent on navigation and trying to recognize markings/signs/light positions that are atypical. FSD handles the minutia of basic vehicle operation so I can focus on higher level decisions. Generally, at inner-city speeds, safety and time-to-act are less of an issue and it just becomes a matter of splitting attention between pedestrians, obstacles, navigation, etc. FSD if very helpful in these situations.
I appreciate your thoughtful and detailed response. I'll need to think about it for a while, too. It had not occurred to me to consider the possibility that someone else's FSD might protect me from the general incompetence and unreliability of amateur motor vehicle operators.
(Jumping a light in the dark? Not thinking or learning to navigate by verbal instructions from your satnav or phone, instead of compromising the primary sense you must constantly use to drive without risking manslaughter? I'm sorry, but if this is the standard, I really can't describe it other than it is...to say nothing of your considering safety less important, as you say, in the "inner city" that is my home.)
I don't know what this means.
> Not thinking or learning to navigate by verbal instructions from your satnav or phone, instead of compromising the primary sense you must constantly use to drive without risking manslaughter?
Navigating involves reading street signs, block numbers, and traffic markings. These are all visual elements that can distract from safety monitoring. How many minor accidents result from driver's trying to figure out where they are, or need to go?
> I'm sorry, but if this is the standard, I really can't describe it other than it is...to say nothing of your considering safety less important, as you say, in the "inner city" that is my home.
My claim isn't that safety is less important in city driving, it's that driving is far safer due to lower speeds. There's more time to react and lower risk of catastrophic results when driving at 35mph. The challenge for a driver isn't sudden loss of control as you may experience at 65+mph. The city driving challenge is trying to track markings, signage, pedestrians, and parked cars while also navigating and managing the vehicle's basic operation. FSD can track all of that without distraction and leave the driver responsible for more human reasoning tasks.
You failed, in this case by hastening to cross the intersection as soon as the light came green, to account for the possibility of another driver's error. If you weren't taught to do that, as I was, then the mistake is not entirely your own. It was still a mistake, which you have already acknowledged would have led you into an accident had your vehicle not rescued you.
> There's more time to react and lower risk of catastrophic results when driving at 35mph.
Not for me. You're the one wearing power armor, remember.
Even if we accept your interpretation of the situation as true, you're making the case for FSD. You can think of FSD (or other self-driving solutions) as raising the floor for bad drivers. If I'm a driver with some otherwise dangerous habits (nobody is perfect) then FSD is filling the gaps in my skill.
> Not for me. You're the one wearing power armor, remember.
But this is a joint interaction between the pedestrian and the vehicle. I can't make the pedestrian more aware. I can't give the pedestrian super-human reaction time. I can, however, give those traits to the vehicle. That's a major selling point for autonomous vehicles.
As a pedestrian, I don't need superhuman reaction time, because unlike some I move at speeds a human mind can comprehend. Nor, I promise you, need I be "more aware" - what a frankly foolish thing to say, when there is nothing on Earth even remotely as dangerous to me, day to day, than you and those like you! I assure you, I am about as aware as it is possible to be. I have to be! Look at you.
But this again is a splendid illustration of the problem, for which I again must give my gratitude: the old-school motorhuckle lifestyler dingbats were right all along, it turns out, to call cars "cages." You carry yours around in your head all the time, I see.
I was watching the Tesla display on my way back home from LaGuardia airport last week (passenger, not driver).
No accidents or close calls, but it was obvious that I might be focused on 1 or 2 things in that very busy and chaotic environment whereas the car (FSD or otherwise) sees more than 2 things and possibly avoids something on my behalf.
...so you hired a professional to do that job for you, instead of risking the wellbeing of everyone nearby. This was the correct decision!
When I'm driving I know what I'm doing, what I'm planning to do and can scan the road and controls with that context.
Making me have to try and guess what the car is going to do at any given time is adding complexity to the process: am I changing lanes now, oh I guess I am because the autonomy thinks we should etc.
I've got plenty of experience, and (feel as though) I know most of it's failure points. I had to drive my 30 minute commute last week, and it was decidedly unfun. I have seen the future and I don't want to go back.
I agree that there are situations where what I do as a trained driver is different from augmented cruise.
A good example (or perhaps I'm wrong) is this: in a lane, car pulls into lane in front of me and between the car further ahead. Now I don't have enough space in between me and that new entrant. But instead of using brakes (unless eggregious), I bleed speed until I make space I want. Augmented cruise doesn't do that - it hits brakes.
So, from behind, I think it looks like I'm using my brakes a lot more than I am when on augmented cruise. And excessive brake use distracts the driver behind me.