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Comment by drstewart | Hacker News Reader

If Japanese internment worried you, you should see Europe's treatment of perceived outsiders [0] and get reallyyyy worried about the ongoing attacks [1] and rhetoric [2]. I would urge extreme caution to anyone in Europe that is at risk.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain

[1] https://www.ein.org.uk/news/home-office-remove-euss-pre-sett...

[2] https://www.ft.com/content/0e29224f-9d06-4315-a89f-e334ffbc6...

Also, what nationality do you say Elon Musk is, out of curiosity? Let's test your consistency :)

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> Expulsion of Jews from Spain [...] On 31 March 1492, the Catholic Monarchs of Spain, King Ferdinand II of Aragon and Queen Isabella I of Castile, issued the Alhambra Decree, ordering all unconverted Jews to leave their kingdoms and territories by the end of July that year, unless they converted to Christianity

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but we (I live in Spain) have come a long way since 1492 (534 years ago) and if that's the most recent example you can find of "Europe's treatment of perceived outsiders" I think you yourself know that stuff like that doesn't happen today, in Europe.

In the UK two decades ago (admittedly not the shortest time) I heard plenty of terrible words and treatment of Pakistanis (which seemed to be used as a good enough bucket for all brown skinned people) and people with red hair. A general disdain for Continentals was a little more subdued. When I was younger France was famous for it's poor treatment of foreigners and non-francophiles. Consider all the politics and anger towards those that continue to try to cross the Mediterranean on makeshift boats or the constant complaints about "benefit thieves" who emigrate from the Eastern bloc. There are many examples and some of them are not without basis but while things have gotten less stabby-stabby there's some fairly brutal attitudes and behaviors.

> There are many examples and some of them are not without basis but while things have gotten less stabby-stabby there's some fairly brutal attitudes and behaviors.

Yeah, I won't claim that everyone is treated equally or even fairly in Europe, and some places are absolutely worse than others, in many different ways.

I'd still claim we no longer do "expulsions" of entire ethnoreligious groups anymore in the 21st century though, which was the initial example of why Europe today is terrible.

I agree things have improved but the GP to my first post set context to:

> Europe's treatment of perceived outsiders

You seemed to be picking a rather narrow slice of the scope.

Well, to be fair, GP did use the "Expulsion of Jews from Spain" as the example for that, so I don't think they were trying to say "Some people in Europe have bad thoughts about perceived outsiders" but rather hinting to some larger events still happening today.

That's fair. To continue being fair, there's a lot of rough behavior happening throughout the world these days. We've forgotten how bad we can make things.

I'd suggest that in Europe also there's more than just bad thoughts for outsiders but bad words, bad treatment, and exclusion from thriving. Extreme cases include bodily harm and I'm fairly certain death but these extreme occur at a lower scale.

I'm not defending racism against immigrants to Europe, but let's get this in proportion. It wasn't long ago that the US had _state mandated segregation_ and regular lynchings. All racism is abhorrent, but I really don't see Europe a specifically problematic in this regard.

I didn't make the claim that Europe is specifically problematic. I was noting that between extremes the GP was talking about

> Europe's treatment of perceived outsiders

Who'd've thunk it, people be tribal?

Tbf theres a much more recent example of legitimate antisemitism in europe. One around the same time as us interment of japanese people

A more relevant recent example would be the shameful stripping of British citizenship from a girl who had been trafficked to the Middle East

They got radicalized and went there voluntarly

In a civilised society, we don't typically regard 15 year olds as responsible for their own radicalisation at the hands of adults

There is no civilized society that treats 15 years old not responsible for joining terrorist groups and for actively working with them.

15 year old being radicalised into terrorism is a societal and parental failure, not the moral failure of an individual child. We don’t treat 15 year olds as adults in other legal proceedings, we should not do here either

Civilised societies tend to blame the groomers, not the victims.

I thought the right wing supported that view.

Didn't have "Europe is antisemitic because of the Spanish Inquisition" on my bingo card today. No one expects it, indeed.

I have more evidence of European xenophobia if that isn't sufficient for you

I dont think you travel much, it would help you get more... objective opinions. But yes please show us that mighty evidence

The other two are ok-ish (though notably Reform is not in government and the elections are 4 years away) but yeah leading with a source from the 15th century really doesn’t support the argument.

The UK Home Office decision about settled status is the fault of the UK, not the EU.

The FT piece is paywalled. But two prominent members of Reform are currently in jail - one for domestic abuse, and one for treason (!) - so the party is not famous for a steely dedication to the moral high ground.

Musk collects citizenships like they’re going out of fashion. He fled South’s Africa due to not wanting to be drafted.

Lieutenant Torvalds on the other hand fulfilled his service duties.

Should the US and South Africa go to war it seems clear where musks loyalties would lie. Should the US and Finland go to war I suspect that Torvalds wouldn’t be as clear cut.

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