Comment by RomanPushkin | Hacker News Reader

Comment by RomanPushkin | Hacker News Reader

I am playing for quite a while... Had private lessons with a coach to practice solo guitar, and general understanding for a couple of years. Before that around 10 years or more as amateur, now it's been 3 years since I spoke to a guitar coach last time.

I play every day, I do my solos, I play blues, I don't need chords. But it's hard.

Just don't underestimate how hard it is - to be able to play any solo by ear. I guess I just don't have any freaking talent. Pretty obvious at this point, since some people do a better progress in 3-5 years of work.

But for me it's not. I realized that for me something isn't just clicking. There was no breakthrough moment I expected all these years.

I invested a lot into playing guitar, but... meh. Honestly, I wish I spent all that time learning AI math or just math in general. Or spend my time on something that would have a better ROI.

Looking back I see how much effort it took, and how low my ROI is. I wish I gave up earlier.

I'm a new player so I'm not asking this to be snarky but to understand. How can you think you don't need chords? It seems to me, 5 months into my journey, that chords are a fundamental aspect of guitar. It sounds like someone taking up golf but saying they don't need putts. Can you help me understand?

This is a great way of phrasing it -- ROI. My mom is a violin teacher and when I asked her if I could learn, she said "no, you don't have the hands for it". She recommended something like guitar would be better for me.

Not everyone can do everything, nor is everything a good return on investment. If you tell people they can do whatever they want, you are effectively wasting their time. Better to give them some useful advice, e.g. your fingers are better for the guitar, rather than insisting everyone can do everything.

Everyone can do much better than they think though.

My daughter's violin teacher refused to teach any adult because according to him if you're too old you're a lost cause ;) I agree an adult is likely not going to be the world's top violinist but I'm also sure that with enough work you can make vast improvements.

On both the guitar and on the violin you are not magically going to get to your max potential. It requires a lot of work. On the guitar you can get to a point where you can play simple songs relatively quickly. On the violin you do sound awful for much longer so it does require a lot more work to get to a reasonable level. Whether that's worth your time or not depends on you.

I think, in practice, most people over-estimate their abilities rather than under-estimate them. The fact that people get upset when hearing they have limitations rather than hearing they don't have limitations is proof enough of our own ego-centric biases. People also believe they will live forever, etc. We are all little gods in our minds, and much of the pain of life is knocking us off our pedestals and giving us a dose of realism.

It is hard.

I can hear a tune and immediately sing it or whistle it. But I can't immediately play it on the guitar. It's much easier for children than adults.

It's also hard to force yourself to practice the relevant skills. You can play scales all day but that won't necessarily help your ear. What you need is to force your brain to make the connection.

Why did you continue playing for over a decade?

I was always pretty curious about what's gonna happen next :) Like one year more into that - will it make me fundamentally better or not? If you understand fretboard - will it make you better or not? If you learn the scales, if you practice them, etc... I was (and still am) looking for something that would hopefully glue all of that together.

Don't get me wrong, I produced a couple of songs, some people say they're pretty good. But honestly, it's a crap.

I mean, it kind of sounds like you hated the whole process and didn't care about the result either. What was your reason for taking up the guitar as a hobby in the first place?

I suspect it's actually impossible to get reasonably good at something without some amount of passion for it, to some degree or another. Most musicians are in it for the thrill of learning something that most people find hard to do, or because they love music, or because they want to be part of a community that values music. Occasionally because they think they can make money at it.

I play an instrument or two, but only for fun. I love music, but I'm at a point in my life where I will never be good enough to be in a band. I have enough other hobbies anyway. I take a random 15 minutes out of my day to play a few songs, maybe practice a new song I'm learning, watch a short Youtube video about it here and there, and that's enough for me.

I can't imagine you can do it for many years without a passion. I'm saying that when it comes to playing an insrument, there is definitely a concept of a talent involved. If you're not talented, you ain't gonna reach stars even if you spend 10-15 years doing it with passion.

Loving musing doesn't mean you can play it.

You're getting dunked on a little bit in the replies, but your point of view is important for people to read. Not everyone is capable of learning every skill, and practice is necessary but insufficient. I've been on and off trying to learn a foreign language for decades, and it just doesn't click, no matter what I try (formal lessons, immersion, book study, apps). I used to have the "Just practice, bro" attitude, but I've done a 180 over the years and I have a lot of empathy and understanding now when my own kid complains "I just can't learn this."

It's also about how you practice. It's true that not everyone can get to any level at any skill. But it's also true we underestimate our abilities and potential almost universally. That said where you invest your limited time and what you enjoy and want to work on is totally up to you. But often "I can't do it" is just an excuse or a mindset or not having found the workaround or the right approach (where a teacher can sometimes help).

this is pretty sad

Reply on news.ycombinator.com