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Comment by legitster | Hacker News Reader

> While the law requires men to request the permit, the spokesperson clarified, it also obliges the military career center to issue it, if "no specific military service is expected during the period in question.”

> "Since military service under current law is based exclusively on voluntary participation, such permissions must generally be granted,” the official added.

> When asked, the ministry spokesperson pointed out that "the regulation was already in place during the Cold War and had no practical relevance; in particular, there are no penalties for violating it.”

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It seems like the purpose is to have the law and all the paperwork set up as a precaution for the future. Sure, right now it’s all voluntary and just rubber stamping, but if in the future they need to do something like Ukraine and lock down travel for military aged men, it’s much easier to flip a switch and start denying travel permits rather than having to set up and fund an entirely new system for requiring travel permits.

If it were to get closer to war (i.e., Spannungsfall, let alone the Verteidigungsfall) a set of laws would unlock that allow control of various areas of life and the economy anyway.

Interestingly, the travel permit requirement already existed in law before, but it was tied to the Spannungsfall/Verteidigungsfall conditions.

This new law removed this condition and preemptively "activated" the requirement even before the Spannungsfall was declared.

Also, in that case, they know where all the men currently are, which is probably the main reason to implement it now. m

Well that’s the thing, they won’t know because nobody will do the registration until it’s actually enforced.

Writing prompt: On June 1, the ministry for defense stops issuing these permits. No one knows why, but wild speculation ensues.

Ah, invasive extra paperwork (enforced by criminal penalties, at least in theory) for something they say on the surface they won’t actually need. So very german (hah)

I suppose it's only a boring piece of extra paperwork until at some moment the permit stops being automatically issued.

You’ve never been to Germany, have you?

Guess what, many jews self-reported themselves to the authorities just to follow the process and that led directly to their death.

https://www.ushmm.org/online/hsv/source_view.php?SourceId=42...

Of course, this is old times now, but here is the same, there is no benefit to register, and you increase your risk to die.

Don't do it.

When your own country is invaded, it changes the calculus.

It is not like they had a choice. The article is about 1939, the events were well progressed then. Only very few were able to hide themselves and stay hidden for years.

> It is not like they had a choice.

> very few were able to hide

Not sure what point you are trying to make. Does that justify the law and its consequences? Does that mean people who did not register were doing something wrong or stupid?

In the United States, adult males have to sign up for the Selective Service for the same reason even though we haven't had conscription since the Vietnam War in the late 1970s(?).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System

> Annual budget $31.3 million (FY 2024)

If it hasn’t been used in 50 years, is there some other use for the registry or the organization or why hasn’t this been cut yet?

Keeping it around just in case the US encounters an existential threat. You never know when it may happen.

Probably July by this rate

Nobody wants to be the guy who got the nation caught with its pants down if conscription needs to come back in a hurry. The same reason the military budget always ratchets upwards.

Measured as a percentage of GDP (which I'd say is the most sensible way to measure it) the US's current military budget is lower than at any point since WWII aside from a few years between the end of the Cold War and 9/11.

The Army of the United States has also not been used in over 50 years,but does that mean it couldn't be used again?

Can I move to whichever dimension it is you live in?

? The United States Army is something different...

Struggling to see the relevance, but, thank you for teaching me this:

The U.S. Army is the permanent, professional standing land force (Regular Army, Reserves, National Guard),

while the Army of the United States (AUS) was a temporary, authorized component used primarily during major wars to rapidly expand forces through draftees and volunteers.

Under U.S. federal law, men ages 18–25 must register with the Selective Service System to be eligible for most federal jobs. Federal agencies enforce this under hiring rules in 5 U.S.C. § 3328.

The wording is a bit strange - technically all men (18-25) must register. When I tried to register, I was told I couldn't because I was already registered.

The Selective Service auto-registers people from various data sources.

But this puts me in a weird spot: I've never actually registered. I am registered. But I did not register - which is the requirement.

There are Kafka-esque parts of the US government where this distinction could matter.

You did register, you just didn't realize you did. Time honored tradition in the U.S.

No other use for the registry.

Informally, it's put forward as one of the most successful government programs in history: it succeeds at all it's objective, comes in at or under budget, employs few people, and avoids the scope creep that kills other successful programs.

It's only shortcoming: it doesn't actually do anything.

I don't know how it worked for anyone else, but I remember the selective service PSA ads when I was growing up -- (that's a manual emdash) If you don't sign up for selective service when you turn 18, you'll be celebrating your birthday at pound-me-in-the-ass federal prison. Or maybe you couldn't get a welfare check, college loan, or federal job. The details are a bit fuzzy.

Then a month or two before my 18th birthday, I got a postcard saying I had been auto-registered. It was a rather disappointing denouement.

Most states default to registering you when you get a driver's license, but you can opt-out. Some are opt-in.

Can someone explain to me how the Selective Service is constitutional? I know Congress "shall have Power To... provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union", but that's only a call, not a legal requirement for anyone to answer the call. The argument seems untenable to me. Not to mention that it's a gross violation of individual freedom, and that if you can't get people to fight for their country then maybe there's something wrong with the country.

‘The constitution is not a suicide pact’ [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constitution_is_not_a_suic...].

It’s the same reason there is a different legal system in the military than for everyone else.

Sometimes, you need to round up all the men and start killing folks - or everyone else dies. Such is life. Making it easy to find them is a basic operational best practice.

They dont need now. Germany is getting ready for being invaded by Russia, basically. They are also building mandatory military service.

Yes, the previous time they were getting ready it was because those pesky Poles being an inch away from invading the Third Reich.

Cold war didn't happen (yes, USSR, not Russia)?

Are you implying that this is Germany getting ready to invade Poland?

I’m implying they aren’t getting ready because they think Russians are going to march on Berlin.

Let's turn this into an affirmation, not a negation. What are you affirming?

..some nonsense propaganda ? - I guess.

They're getting ready to ensure the Russians aren't.

Russians are expanding and meddling in EU countries. Those are facts.

Russians talk about further expansion too.

I thought it was those pesky Poles refusing to provide a German land corridor to enable intra-territorial transit between Germany and Germany’s exclave East Prussia. That and ethnic Germans allegedly being harassed in Poland.

First one is definitely true and isn’t emphasized much and tbh I feel like that demand wasn’t unreasonable. Shipping people and things and providing defense would be a lot harder to an exclave than to contiguous territory. They did seriously overreact by invading, of course, and it seems like Mr H had some serious temperamental issues.

Second one I’ve never researched enough to know if it’s true or German propaganda.

I don’t recall the Germans ever claiming that Poland was about to invade them? Maybe I missed it.

WTF ? alternative history and DARVO ? ('pesky'?? - he must be russian)

Nonsense propaganda and NEVER true ! (but DARVO)

Poland never attacked any country first.

'pesky' it's quite easy the russian point of view !

- and vasac is spreading disinformation accordingly, here on HN.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Poland+ever+attacked+any+country+f...

(downvoted below for calling it: some nonsense propaganda ? - what it is indeed !)

Previously it was conditional, only in effect “in the event of tension or defense” (machine translation), but they are very exceptional circumstances -- AFAIK not ever invoked since unification.

The change this year was to make it applicable regardless of those conditions: “Outside the tension or defense case, §§ 3 [...]” shall apply.

This is a significant change from the previous Cold War policy. I have talked about the definition of these terms in another comment, with another news article as source.

Idk why you are being downvoted, what you said is factually correct.

I'm always eager to be corrected if wrong. Such replies welcome.

It was already a thing back when I was doing compulsory service (end of the nineties), but no one cared and no one was ever asked for it.

Not true. Back then, limitations on "Spannungsfall" and "Verteidigungsfall" were in place which have been removed last year. The real news, though, is that the public (media, opposition parties) didn't noticed until a couple of days ago.

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