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Comment by askonomm | Hacker News Reader

So are you also not allowed to move away or? I find it pretty messed up that your life as a man is literally owned by the government.

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No, it literally says the law says you must seek permission if you wanna leave for more than 3 months and the govt must always grant you this if not in a war. And if you fail to seek permission nothing happens. You can ignore it without consequence.

>And if you fail to seek permission nothing happens. You can ignore it without consequence

The consequence is you violated the law, and they can have you at any time, even retroactively, for that.

That they don't is merely a detail. If it really has "no consequence" they should remove it.

Civilized countries don’t allow retroactively increasing the penalty for breaking a law. Does Germany allow that?

The penalty doesn't have to be increased, it just needs to be selectively enforced.

You'd need to have some unenforced penalty first though.

There is no penalty.

No, Germany punishes according to the laws at the time of the crime. It is not possible to retroactively enforce new criminal statutes.

A lot of laws head this way. Sweeping chances but not enforced so people ignore it, then later there's nothing stopping the government going back 7 years after select individuals. Just because it wasn't ever enforced doesn't mean it isn't illegal. An example is disguised employment laws for contractors in the UK (IR35)

I think it's like they want to have it on the books now so they can use it later. If they try to emergency legislate during wartime people will protest and/or flee the country the day before it starts applying.

Yea, you violated a law that is not enforced. Like how you are violating the law if you give some money to the neighbors kid to mow your lawn or if you cook some pie and you give it away to a friend without having proper certifications (at least in Sweden on paper you need to have certification to do that. Of course it is not enforced)

And no, Germany does not allow retroactive criminal punishments. That’s more something that happens in Russia, China and probably soon America

At least Germany isn't looking at entering any wars at the moment...

All nation states are like that. They monopolise power and violence, and will defend that monopoly by sacrificing their citizens' lives if another state tries to infringe upon it.

I think it's clear that the interests of citizens and their state typically do not align. Unfortunately, most states have cultivated and propagated a different idea for decades, which is why so many people have a different perception of their state than the reality.

No idea why you single out nation states, all states are similar.

Nation state is just another word for state, no? What state is not a nation state?

The states of the United States of America are not nation states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state

States before nationalism generally used mercenaries to fight their wars. No soldier was dumb enough to think they were protecting their family.

Vast over-generalization

Yes you are: the article says that the permission must be granted in general by authorities (I guess no war and not active military) and no penalties for breaching it.

You are, but it's a shit law and surprising to still exist in Germany. Per the article it's not a new law, has been in effect since the 80s, and there have been no repercussions for violating this law.

Instead, my 2c, should have changed it to a notice you have to send the military, at most.

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