"They've betrayed my trust but I wish them well" is an interesting statement.
That may not automatically mean you wish them harm in return, but I believe it would be very uncommon to not.
One way in which they do that is to ride or effectively are selected by the system for their mastery of the psychological trick of positivity and optimism that predisposes people to follow and trust, e.g., even when someone betrays you, you “wish them well.
In such systems, courage and hard lines that enforce strict rules, discipline, and principles does not provide the leaders in that system the affordances and benefits of leadership. As has been indicated, the subject behaviors are not only not novel, nor are they unique. What precipitated this current action appears to be the egregious and probably violative nature of the behavior, not the behavior itself. The veneer of perception was pierced, which is the real trigger of action.
Just use my saying what I just said above as an example, there will be people who have not even read this last paragraph and will it will have the urge to down vote what I said solely on the basis that they want to punish me, the messenger, because I’m pointing out things that are very much true and not saying it in a positive manner. It causes feelings of discomfort and especially in American society today where everything is geared towards positivity and good feelings opium, not bad feelings, even if you’re being scammed or defrauded or lied to, you have to remain positive, say things in positive ways, be “constructive”.
I don’t know if it’s sustainable because it’s such a con job at its very core, an abusive confidence trick, maintaining the perception of confidence and optimism to keep people happy and positive and optimistic regardless of red flags; however, we shall all find out one day if no one being able to deal with reality anymore if it’s not wrapped some nicety, is sustainable. Hence, “They violated us/me” but “I wish them well”. See, they are wished well, so everything is fine and we just removed the bad apple, nothing to see here, keep being positive as the telescreen instructs you to.
Kinda like "bless your heart", which means nothing of the sort.
Maybe 7-8 years ago I met an Iranian. They were genuinely shocked I wasn’t a cowboy hat wearing racist when I told them I was from the south.
I grew up in the Atlanta area.
My comment is an internet comment about idioms, not a comprehensive linguistic treatise.
You seem like you're looking for something to be upset about. I wish you well.
For folks who don't know, here's the best explanation I can offer from growing up in the Atlanta area (but well outside the perimeter):
"Bless your heart" is most commonly an expression of sympathy.
Sometimes, it's sympathetic towards the hardship someone's going through (e.g. "and right after his grandma passed, bless his heart.")
Sometimes it's sympathetic to the trouble someone went through (e.g. "oh bless your heart, you didn't have to go out of your way to bring extra! Thank you so much!")
And yes, sometimes it's an expression of sympathy for the fact that life must be hard for you because of your ignorance, stubbornness, stupidity, or arrogance (or some other such stunting quality) (e.g. "and he thinks he can graduate from Tech with those grades, bless his heart," or "bless his heart, I just don't think he's ever had anyone tell him no in his entire life.")
It is often used an expression of thanks or appreciation, but I associate that more with an elder speaking to someone younger.
Most of the time, it is an genuine expression of true empathy, but it's not uncommon to be used as a passive aggressive expression of false empathy. It's that childish connotation that give it the extra bite when used passive aggressively.
And that plausible deniability, where the phrase is used in a genuine context often enough that sometimes you can't tell that someone is throwing shade, is very much a reflection of southern culture.
Source: Grew up in Georgia and North Carolina, with some family in Alabama.
Trump On Ghislaine Maxwell: "I Just Wish Her Well" | NBC News
That’s an oversimplification of what your parent comment said, which was someone who has betrayed your trust.
> It would be interesting if you didn't
Why? What’s interesting about it? You don’t have to actively wish harm on people who harmed you, but there’s nothing strange about not wishing them well.
We throw around words like "interesting", which is a subtle way to say "not normal", which is a subtle way to say that that's not how we would behave and that we think that others shouldn't behave that way either. So I take back what I said about what is interesting to me, and I'll just say that I wish it was normal to wish well to others, regardless of their actions or repercussions you impose on them.
Not what I said.
> To me the default posture is not indifference, but wishing wellness.
Same here. I’m not convinced that’s the default state for everyone, though. David Foster Wallace’s “This is Water” comes to mind.
> We throw around words like "interesting", which is a subtle way to say "not normal", which is a subtle way to say that that's not how we would behave and that we think that others shouldn't behave that way either.
Sure, I get that. Though you’re still answering as if what was in question was the neutral state of “people you don’t associate with” rather than the negative state in question mentioned by your original parent comment of “someone who has wronged you”.
> I'll just say that I wish it was normal to wish well to others, regardless of their actions or repercussions you impose on them.
Interesting. No criticism on my part. My wish would rather be that we don’t wrong each other (which, crucially, requires intentionality) in the first place. And while I don’t typically wish ill on others, I don’t think it’s wrong to not wish well on those who cause harm. If you’re a despot oppressing millions of people for your own selfish benefit, I don’t really think wishing you well is a positive action.
But again, no judgement, I was trying to understand your position, so thank you for clarifying. Have a nice weekend.
It looks like you've misinterpreted both what I said and what latexr said. Allow me to clarify and reorient the conversation back to the original direction...
First, neither of us is the universal subject. Your default feeling and my default feeling are not "the" default feeling. There's no such thing as "the" default feeling.
Second, nothing I or they said has anything to do with any "default passive state", because this is not a "default passive" situation. The word "betray" here is important. "Betrayal" happens actively, not passively. Feel however you want to feel about your passive default situations. This situation is different.
The only way someone can "betray" trust is by invalidating trust on purpose. If they harm you on purpose without trust, they have not betrayed any trust because there was none. If they invalidate trust accidentally, they have not "betrayed" the trust. They only "betray" your trust if you put trust in them and then they invalidate the trust intentionally.
> I'll just say that I wish it was normal to wish well to others, regardless of their actions
How very noble. Anyway, sorry Siddhartha, if someone actively "betrays" me they can go die in a fire. That has nothing to do with my "default passive" feeling about people.
I've not read Siddhartha. I take it you didn't like it.
As Donald Draper once said "I don't think about you at all."
What makes you say that wishes are finite? Do you ration them out to your loved ones?