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Comment by weli | Hacker News Reader

I always thought the law should be really simple. It should take an average person (independent from the case and a large enough sample) about the same time to pay for something than to refund/return/cancel it. That's it.

I gladly am in Germany and companies are more scared of implementing dark patterns here for canceling products. When I was in the US I dreaded cancelling services because I knew they would make me jump around several hoops and even sometimes require contacting customer support.

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Hah! Try exiting the church in Germany then. ;-)

But besides that it's really okay.

Or the GEZ... :-)

You can't unsubscribe from this because it is not a normal service, but a racket. By definition: a service that creates its own demand.

Had to pay 35€ to exit and had to make an appointment before 12pm...

See! 12 o'clock! MADNESS!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

> The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church, although the concept of "membership" is far from clear, and it may be asked what right the secular state has to tell the faithful what contribution they should make to their own denomination. People who are not members of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it. Members of a religious community may formally cease to be considered members by making a declaration to state (not religious) authorities, ending liability to pay church taxes. Some religious communities refuse religious marriages and funerals to members who leave.

Is it harder than implied to make that declaration?

I think he's alluding the excommunication aspect.

> Is it harder than implied to make that declaration?

It involves going in person to a court or to a notary public. Pretty high friction which, I believe, is largely intentional.

For 8% off my tax bill, that feels like a small obstacle.

Yes, but you'll usually have to make an appointment for that and especially in larger cities or communities this might take quite a time. So, yeah, 8% on the hand, waiting for weeks for an appointment on the other hand...

There's more friction than needed...

The US was sooo close! This was exactly how the proposed Click-to-Cancel rule worked from the Biden FTC under Lina Khan. The Trump administration came in and killed it before it went into effect, though, because of course they did (technically: they stopped a mandatory impact study and let the judiciary kill it, same same).

> I always thought the law should be really simple. It should take an average person (independent from the case and a large enough sample) about the same time to pay for something than to refund/return/cancel it. That's it.

Can't be too hard. It's already there for email subs - US CAN-SPAM Act and UK PECR.

Shouldnt such bureaucratic bomb defusals be easier thanks to llms?

Good luck finding out how to contact customer support. The darkest dark pattern of them all.

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