IPv6 address, as a sentence you can remember
sentence2ipv6.tib3rius.com
sentence2ipv6.tib3rius.com
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8981#name-problem-s...
also I sure as hell dont remember my ipv4 address
Wow. That's so amazingly unpopular. Why anyone bothers talking about something untold millions of people use every day is beyond me.
You have to take into account seasonal trends. The summer is always higher, so yes, we’re currently below last summer, but we are above last April 1st, and this summer will be higher than last summer.
That was the entire point of my comment.
You can’t compare fall winter and spring to last July. You have to compare last July to this July, which hasn’t happened yet, but when it does, it will be higher than last July. Today (April) is higher than last April.
The reason for this is that more people are on mobile connections during the summer (kids home from school) so the summer (as well as the Christmas/new year week) are the highest points of the year.
The fact that it’s “flat” since last July, the high season, means it’s actually still increasing.
> Regardless, when you extrapolate that curve, when do you estimate hitting 100%?
Never? But what’s your point? IPv6 is a failure if it only replaces IPv4 for 99% of traffic?
I've never recognized an IPv6 address or prefix used in my networks.
If you want to be really wonky you can script DHCPv6 to statically assign ULA IPv6 leases that match the IPv4, and expire them when the IPv4 lease expires, but like said upthread, addressing hosts via IPv6 is the wrong way to go about it. On your lan, you really want to be doing ".local" / ".lan" / ".home".
.local is fine as long as all the daemons work correctly, but AFAIK there's no way to have SLAAC and put hosts in "normal" internal DNS, so .lan/.home/.internal are probably out.
The "official" is home.arpa according to RFC 8375 [1]:
Users and devices within a home network (hereafter referred to as
"homenet") require devices and services to be identified by names
that are unique within the boundaries of the homenet [RFC7368]. The
naming mechanism needs to function without configuration from the
user. While it may be possible for a name to be delegated by an ISP,
homenets must also function in the absence of such a delegation.
This document reserves the name 'home.arpa.' to serve as the default
name for this purpose, with a scope limited to each individual
homenet.
[1]: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8375".home" and ".lan" along with a bunch of other historic tlds are on the reserved list and cannot be registered.
Call techy people pathologically lazy but no one is going to switch to typing ".home.arpa" or ".internal". They should have stuck with the original proposal of making ".home" official, instead of sticking ".arpa" behind it. That immediately doomed the RFC.
But the point is that is the address you would put in dns if you also wanted to use slaac. Most of the time however you will just set a manual address. And this was with obsd, where when slaac is setup you get the slaac address and a temporary address. I don't really know what linux does. Might have to try now.
There’s something to be said for human readable addresses. I’m a little nostalgic of how the .hack world was envisioned, where servers had address names like Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground.
If roughly 10 million words exist, then allowing any three words in order creates a space for 10^21 addresses… five words and you’re close to ipv6 address space, six words and there’s more combinations than ipv6 addresses.
Even easier.
That said, I disagree with the parent statement that v6 isn't going to happen. It's already happening at a steady rate. From the Google stats it's steadily rolling out. Some countries are reaching 100% v6 deployment. I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see some countries with high v6 deployments see services which are v6 only.
World map:
https://www.arcep.fr/cartes-et-donnees/nos-cartes/ipv6/carte...
France is extremely close to 100%:
https://www.arcep.fr/fileadmin/reprise/observatoire/ipv6/Arc...
> some countries with high v6 deployments see services which are v6 only.
IIRC this has already long happened in some countries with smaller IPv4 pools, can't recall where.
I have zero concerns that the IPv6 namespace for my home network will conflict with another administrative site during a merger. So.. it works great. Also super handy when the DNS resolver for my local network is down because of power outages or other unrelated failures.
Yes. mDNS if we're talking about home networks.
Or devices that don't offer mDNS?
But I'm not sure that "How morally the enviable assistances categorize the insistent iodine beyond new time where new systems stalk" has the same memorable quality as "correct horse battery staple" does.
The reason I'm an IPv4 advocate in the IPv4/IPv6 war is that the problem was "we're out of address", not "your thermostat should be natively routable from every single smartphone on the planet by default and inbound firewalls should become everyone's responsibility to configure for every device they own".
CGNAT is a feature, not a bug. Blending in with the crowd with a dynamic WAN IP is a helpful boost to privacy, even if not a one-stop solution. IPv6 giving everyone a globally unique, stable address by default is a regression in everyone's default privacy, and effectively a death sentence for the privacy of non-technical users who aren't capable of configuring privacy extensions. It's a wet dream for shady data brokers, intelligence agencies, organized crime, and script kiddies alike - all adversaries / attackers in threat modelling scenarios.
IPv6 adds configuration surface I don't want. Privacy extensions, temporary addresses, RA flags, NDP, DHCPv6 vs SLAAC — these are problems I don't have with IPv4. More features means more opportunities to footgun with misconfigurations, being forced to waste my time learning and understanding the nuances of each (in again, what amounts to system I want nothing to do with).
"Reaching your own stuff" is already a solved problem, too. Tailscale/Headscale gives you authenticated, encrypted, NAT-traversing connectivity. It's better than being globally routable. It's also opt-in for anyone who wants it, and not forced on anyone, unlike the IPv6 transition.
IPv6 predates those by decades.
I don't have to rely on extra commercial entities to be able to reach my network.
I did have a problem with hosting my own shit because my ISP by default does cgnat. That cost me an hour of my life to convince a party to give what used to be normal, end to end connectivity.
It's much more private and secure to run that Minecraft or Mumble server on an encrypted overlay network like via headscale + tailscale rather than exposing both services directly to the entire planet.
But again, the primary concern was only ever address space.
The additional security gained by getting everyone involved to set up and configure separate VPNs for different community utilities is not worth it.
Highly disagree. Middleboxes are a huge problem on global scale and have frozen any innovation below application layer. TCP and UDP even that they are on software not hardware layer cannot be updated or changed, see MPTCP efforts or QUIC giving up and building on top of UDP.
If this is so much privacy problem, IPv6 is there for many years reaching 50%+ deployments in some countries, I bet there should be concrete examples of such breaches and papers written.
> Reaching your own stuff is already a solved problem, too. Tailscale/Headscale
No address to receive communication - no problem install an app that would proxy it through someone who has the address. Tailscale/Headscale is great, using it daily, but they are not solution to the huge already build global network created to connect devices not connecting devices because lack of digits. Global is key here.
Port forwarding has massive problems if you're running applications expecting certain ports and need multiple hosts to have public access to those ports.
Public servers would use a firewall, a load balancer, possibly a reverse proxy that does TLS too, between the internet and real app servers anyway. If anyone needs to host multiple servers from their home net, I would expect them to know this.
I've had game consoles with matchmaking issues with multiple consoles fighting over the same collection of ports
About the other stuff... well... maybe I'm too old, but I think you're doing it wrong.
1) Those aren't public services and they are NOT expecting certain ports. Public means that a random guy on the internet is able to connect to your service without any prior knowledge about it. HTTP(S) for web pages is one of those services. Owncloud is not, even if it uses HTTPS.
2) Since they're not public, each of those services can have its own port.
3) You shouldn't expose that stuff on the internet, even with a firewall. Use a VPN if you want access when you're away. Or a SSH tunnel. Or at least port knocking.
They're services I wish to consume outside my home
> they are NOT expecting certain ports
Damn near everything expects to be HTTPS/443
> Public means that a random guy on the internet is able to connect to your service without any prior knowledge about it
Public just means I have the option to allowing that traffic or not. I can choose to filter it through a lot of different means. IP filtering, authentication, etc.
> each of those services can have its own port
So I change having easy to remember names for weird odd ports and hope all the other applications handle these changes fine and deal with odd port forwarding issues.
> You shouldn't expose that stuff on the internet, even with a firewall. Use a VPN if you want access when you're away. Or a SSH tunnel. Or at least port knocking.
Wouldn't it be nice to have the option to not have to rely on such things and just be able to connect to things directly? And to have that identity stay consistent both in and out if the "local" network?
ipv6 is awesome.
Like I said, not public.
> Damn near everything expects to be HTTPS/443
So let it. Forward your own chosen port to 443 of the machine with the service.
> Public just means I have the option to allowing that traffic or not.
Nope. That's not what it means.
> So I change having easy to remember names for weird odd ports [...]
Easy to remember names comes from some DNS service, which can't work unless your public IP address stays the same and you can run your own public NS and can receive recursion from your main NS provider. In most parts of the world, I think, IP changes every time you restart the router, even IPv6. So what you have there isn't exactly typical for home users. That one extra service and complication that you don't actually need.
I don't have to remember anything HTTP(S). No ports, no IPs, no names, nothing. I use bookmarks.
> Wouldn't it be nice to have the option to not have to rely on such things and just be able to connect to things directly?
Wouldn't it be nice if there were no bad guys on the internet, no bots, and no zero days?
> ipv6 is awesome.
For Google and for you, maybe. But let me know how much you like it after your first cryptolocker. I suppose your backup storage is also public on the internet?
Outside the home, in other words in networks other than at home. Potentially without VPNs. Accessible from other public IP addresses, potentially limited scopes of those.
It seems you're thinking that allowing the traffic from other public networks is an all or nothing thing. That either you allow all public network traffic or none of it. That's just not true. If I know my office network is one prefix, and I know my friend's house is another prefix, and I know my cellular carrier in my city is usually this prefix, I can greatly limit the scope of access. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing, either its open to every single other device or only local devices, I can define exactly which networks or devices I want to allow the traffic from or not.
If I wanted to just let my friend's network audio receiver to connect to my music server, I can add it's public ip address and allow that traffic. No VPNs, no tunnels, no proxies, no non-standard port assignments, just directly allowing it to talk to the music server. All through the public internet, but still locking down my music server to just local traffic and his remote network audio receiver.
That's all still "public" networking.
> In most parts of the world, I think, IP changes every time you restart the router, even IPv6.
Often not with IPv6, prefixes stay pretty consistent usually. Not always true, but often true. I've had the same prefix for many, many years at multiple locations and multiple providers without having any kind of payment for static IP addresses.
> So let it. Forward your own chosen port to 443 of the machine with the service.
So now I have to remember the port for local and the port for remote along with different IP addresses for both, or I can just use the normal service port and the same IP address either way, and have one DNS entry for that IP address and it works anywhere I want it to.
> But let me know how much you like it after your first cryptolocker.
Entirely a tangential, unrelated point once you understand how things like "firewalls" actually work.
> I suppose your backup storage is also public on the internet
My most important backups are offline and offsite. But for other stuff, yes, it has a publicly routable IP address. Its not generally accessible publicly though. There are these things called "firewalls", they're really quite neat. One should also think about authn/authz as well next time you're working on your storage solutions as well, it'll do a lot to prevent cryptolocker issues you're so worried about.
For instance, AWS S3 is all technically accessible publicly. Its locked down by policies, not by NAT limitations. And yet its generally seen as a very secure place to store things, assuming one has the right policies in place. It doesn't take it being behind a NAT to be secure, because if that's the major part of your security posture preventing your stuff from getting cryptolocker'd you're doing things very, very wrong.
> I use bookmarks
Ok, and you hop on someone else's computer and...where are my bookmarks? Oops! Or I want to connect back to my media server from a friend's streaming device...where are my bookmarks? Oops!
And once again I bring up things like game consoles and other P2P applications which just work far better with actual publicly routable IP addresses directly. Strict NAT configurations will often cripple these services and good luck trying to have multiple consoles operating at once. CGNAT makes online gaming for some of these consoles just completely unusable, but if we just supported IPv6 it would have no problems.
But it's still private use, not a public service. The fact that you access it from the internet side doesn't make it public.
What you are describing here is in stark contradiction with your claimed easy to use IPv6. Why go through all this trouble if you wanted something easy to use as you describe IPv6?
> So now I have to remember the port for local and the port for remote along with different IP addresses for both, or I can just use the normal service port and the same IP address either way, and have one DNS entry for that IP address and it works anywhere I want it to.
No, you remember just your global DNS name which would be independent of ISP, geo location or router used, and work with dynamic allocated IPs too, and remember or bookmark a port number for each service. Reflection in the router would make that combination (name+port) work from inside the LAN too.
>> But let me know how much you like it after your first cryptolocker.
> Entirely a tangential, unrelated point once you understand how things like "firewalls" actually work.
Oh, I know how they work, at least in Linux, I do. It's a 1 (one!) wrong setting away from exposing everything using IPv6 inside the LAN.
> For instance, AWS S3 [...] And yet its generally seen as a very secure place to store things
Do you really belive that? Really?
> Or I want to connect back to my media server from a friend's streaming device...where are my bookmarks?
OMG! And let his favorite cloud providers index my music collection?? No thank you! I ask for the 3.5 jack cable and connect my phone. Or BT pairing code.
A service I'm using its public IP for, routing through public network connections over the public internet, but somehow its not public networking its private networking despite private networks not really being involved. Got it. Having firewall rules suddenly makes it private networking, somehow.
> remember or bookmark a port number for each service
Or just don't, because I've got quintillions of public IP addresses just lying around. I can even have multiple instances of the same service running on the same box all running the same standard port numbers because I can just grab yet another IP address all day long. Why limit myself to having to memorize weird ports when I can just use the standard ones?
It's a private service exposed to public networks when it shouldn't be. That's not how it's done. You are taking risks. I'm sure others would agree with me if this article wasn't this old.
> Why limit myself to having to memorize weird ports when I can just use the standard ones?
For the reasons I explained before, mainly LAN security and DNS not working with dynamic IP allocations. But, go ahead, have it your way. Each of us have our own priorities in life. Convenience is a valid choice. Keep those offline backups updated.
Its not how it was done because of NAT. You just couldn't have done it that way for a long time. We don't need NAT anymore.
> For the reasons I explained before, mainly LAN security and DNS not working with dynamic IP allocations
But once again, its not actually changing the security characteristics at all compared to choosing weird ports and having to deal with reflection issues. The service is still opened either way, just one requires you to choose other ports.
If it breaks, so much that you cannot do a dig, you need to re think your network.
Even then nobody is stopping you from giving them memorable IP addresses. Giving your local router a link-local address of fe80::1 is perfectly valid. Or if you're needing larger networking than just link-local and have memorable addresses use ULAs and have the router on network one be fd00:1::1, the router on network two be fd00:2::1, the router on network three be fd00:3::1, etc. Is fe80::1 or fd00:1::1 really that much harder to memorize than 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 or 10.0.0.1, if you're really super gung-ho about memorizing numbers?
You're right. That would work.
What redundancy, multiple servers? Do you think everybody runs dedicated homelabs to access a raspberry pi.
Sounds like a pretty poor setup, systems which could auto-add DHCP'd or discovered entries have been around for literally decades. You're choosing to live in that limitation.
> What redundancy, multiple servers?
Multicast name resolution is a thing. Hosts can send out queries and other devices can respond back. You don't need a centralized DNS server to have functional DNS.
- 2001:4860:4860::8888
- 2001:4860:4860::8844
If you hate typing that much, computers may not be for you.
> If you hate typing that much, computers may not be for you.
Nobody said anything about typing?
So then I need to use DNS. At which point it could be IPv6.
I have 56 host entries in my dnsmasq.conf.
Not because of the encryption element, but the part about representing a 64 bit integer as a six word sequence for usability.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/KEY#Usability).
Also used outside of that for quickly/easily recognising hash fingerprints.
(It's easier to recognise that your fingerprint is "GAFF WAIT SKID GIG SKY EYED" than "87FE C776 8B73 CCF9").
(It also slips some parity in there for good measure).
They advertise it as being useful for search/rescue as you can provide a precise location over an unclear voice channel. They conveniently ignore that speaking numbers is clearer than speaking random words.
I'm sure there's more I'm unaware of.
They are missing feature of some codes that can have variable length for variable precision.
https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/local-news/whistler-search...
https://globalnews.ca/news/8258671/north-shore-rescue-what3w...
Basically the company wants to make money off it so are pushing it and it’s problematic due to it being less easy to use then standard gps cords, words sound the same, and most people have no idea what it is (and nor should they learn lat long)
Yes
> search and rescue teams are actively against people using it.
Sadly no
But locally here most SAR teams are against it
https://globalnews.ca/news/8258671/north-shore-rescue-what3w...
https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/local-news/whistler-search...
I’d really love to see things like this generate little jingles along with the sentence. :)
Music, meter, and rhyme are all (among other things) algorithms for indexing and error-correction, tools very suitable to the squishy hardware.
At least for me, part of the reason I can still sing the countries of the world is because the original Animaniacs song was set to a tune that was already familiar: “Jarabe Tapatío” (aka the Mexican Hat Dance).
However, for the use-case at hand (remembering IPv6 addresses) I don't think I'd use that. I'd just write them down somewhere, like, uh, perhaps, oh I know: the hosts file.
Or more concisely, localhost.
That is a lot of words for ::1.
Edit: there was another one below, haha :)
Hard to forget a sentence like that!
The rationale being you are more likely to remember grammatical cogent sentence, than a random string of alphanumeric characters. Although I will agree that the generated sentences don't seem easy to remember. So I doubt it's utility.
> How now the smart flies take the new time beyond new time where new times come.
..Nice idea, but it may need some more thought. (Even more so as 2001:db8::1 is much easier to remember than that!) (I wrote that parenthetical from memory on edit, vs. had to copy-paste the sentence when it was my intention to comment on it within seconds.)
Now, if only those people who designed IPv6 were smarter.. Hex aint that bad, LONG hex addresses are pain to use.
Now, lets say you have LAN like this [::1:0:0/56]. So, ::1:0:24 is easy to remember right? Managable? right?.. Also, bonus for :: shortening is, you immediatly know what are you dealing with, ::1 is loopback, ::1:1 is LL, ::1:0:1 is LAN.. everything else is Internet.
The truth is, IPv6 is really 64bit, the other 64bit part is just randomish node address...
So anyway it gives 128bits in total, 64 for network and 64 for node.
But I wish there was a better way to write just the local node part and global part being taken automatically.
And I don't think I ever typed manually any IPv6 address other than `::1`.
I use a simple one like `fd10::1/128` and `fd10::2/128` and so on
Technically speaking RFC 4193 says you should use random bits. But I don't care.
In your typical home environment, just set your ULA to fd00::12 instead of 192.168.0.12, or fd00:16:34 instead of 192.168.16.34
Yes you'll run into issues if you were to later want to merge your private IPs with someone else, and you should use fd12:3456:7890::12 instead, remembering those extra 10 digits, but its not a problem at home, and no more of a problem with business mergers than ipv4 clashes anyway.
It's about as easy to remember as 81.187.123.45//192.168.0.53
Almost all ipv6 addresses I encounter start with 2001, so I just need to remember my home prefix is 8b0:abcd, which is about the same length as my home public IP of 81.187.123.45
::53 means subnet zero host 53, which is easier to remember than which rfc1918 range I used (and basically is the equivalent of remembering the 2001:: prefix)
If I have an internal server I'd have on 192.168.4.12 I could address it with 2001:8b0:abcd:4::12 just as easily, with the "4.12" translating to "4::12", and the "81.187.123.45>192.168.x.y" translating to "2001:8b0:abcd:x::y"
Just because slacc gives you an extra 64 bits of randomness doesn't mean you need to use them.
All that being said, I think it's a neat idea and a cool tool!
despite being an ipv6 skeptic, i’ve been thinking to try using ipv6 for our new company network, but make the addresses purely readable
How could we determine which device on mobile network is a faceless cellphone and which is a proper device needing real sweet Internet connection? And won't that make things more complicated than just v6 deployment?
Can argue that NAT, which interrupt layers ment for end device do basically the same as popular user hostinle unchangable mobile OSes, but I don't think latter is good either.
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