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Comment by JumpCrisscross | Hacker News Reader

> Those proactive in a reactive world are often mocked and laughed at

I'm going to start calling this a Jehovah's Witness complex. Where amplified, mostly imagined mockery of an incredibly dominant view, at least in group, is used as evidence of that view's righteousness and, by extension, rightness.

> prices will not be dropping...Energy grid decentralization is occurring

Cost versus resilience. A low-cost grid has lots of centralised production earning economies of scale. A highly-resilient system doesn't even need a grid, but it's going to be high cost.

The correct answer is in between. Rural electrification should be done entirely decentralised. Meanwhile, trying to run a city (or even most industry) on de-centralised power is a recipe for ruin.

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I think the answer may be more complex than that. I mean, I know you are not wrong. My boss only recently made a crack at how pointless solar energy is in the world of cheap gas.

But it is not just cost. It is a level of control the contractor has over it. The solar systems, as currently pushed, are designed to be carefully monitored at all times; if you read the contract ( in IL anyway, but I presume it is common, because my mom had a similar experience ), I have to give the company a way in every time they desire to look at the panels. I can't just take it down, I need to hire them. I can't not sell the house without them ( and the buyer has to take over that contract ).

I like solar tech, but the was it is designed is .. very American in the worst possible way. Yes, there seem to be better options popping up, but that is not where contractor money is at..

edit: Just in case, I got a quote in 2024 so obviously things may have changed on that front ( oddly, BBB may actually help with my particular set of complaints as the contractors will have to spread their bets somewhat ).

> solar systems, as currently pushed, are designed to be carefully monitored at all times; if you read the contract

This varies from place to place. I got a quote for solar in Wyoming. It's 100% my deal. Nobody is leasing anything. If I skip inspections and fuck up my roof, that's on me.

> The solar systems, as currently pushed, are designed to be carefully monitored at all times; if you read the contract ( in IL anyway, but I presume it is common, because my mom had a similar experience ), I have to give the company a way in every time they desire to look at the panels.

I did my own install of a ground mount 6.7kW array. I initially declined to connect to the inverter manufacturer's monitoring, because I did not want my system hooked up to the internet.

Then, in the spring of 2024, the inverter failed (it was still under warranty). I was travelling at the time, but that may have made no difference at all. It took me a month to notice that generation had gone to zero.

Once I found out, and replaced the inverter, I chose to connect it not because the system requires it (it absolutely does not!), but so that the manufacturer would alert me in the future if a similar failure happened.

Ideally, I'd like to be able run a monitoring app locally, with no internet connection. For now, I'll take the remote monitoring despite my misgivings about it.

Hmm, could you recommend any good references for a personal build? I was debating doing a test run with a shed ( if I mess it up too bad, it won't hurt as much kinda deal ).

Sorry, can't recall anything in particular that I used. I'm a pretty handy person to start with, nothing about the system was complex except for building scaffolding to pre-assemble the metal pipework that formed the frame for the array(s). I used a company (then called Wholesale Solar) to design the system and buy the parts from, which made it all pretty simple.

I did have to take a very challenging exam to get licensed by the state for "home owner solar" - much harder than I expected given the NEC sections and the fact that it was open book.

There are inverters with local only monitoring and control. I have one integrated locally with home assistant. You can also add an external current transformer and monitor the production with that independent of the inverter.

Oh? Could you go into any details? I will clearly need to do some research now, but if I can save myself some time, all the better.

Not the person you responded to, but for a current monitor you could look at e.g. Shelly devices.

I have a Shelly Pro 3EM three phase current meter device on my home battery connection just to get more accurate data into Home Assistant because the battery provider doesn't provide it. (In hindsight I should've bought a different battery install but that's not something I can change after the fact...)

> he was it is designed is .. very American in the worst possible way.

Spot on!

If you're buying what someone is 'pushing' you already lost. Solar is not very complicated, particularly if you don't care about grid connectivity. Just buy the pieces for a fraction of the cost and do it yourself without putting money in someone else's pocket for the next 20 years.

That sounds utterly terrible. Don’t buy what they’re pushing.

Here in Canada I did a half DIY install, I own everything, forever. Zero out of pocket, interest free loan. Over 30 years I’ll pocket about $25k

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